CITY OF CARSON
REGULAR MEETING OF THE PROJECT AREA COMMITTEE
MINUTES
CARSON COMMUNITY CENTER
801 E. Carson Street, Hall C
CARSON, CALIFORNIA 90745
7:00 P.M.
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4 PROJECT AREA COMMITTEE MEETING 5
5 MAY 2, 2002
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7 CARSON COMMUNITY CENTER
801 EAST CARSON DRIVE
8 CARSON, CALIFORNIA
9 7:00 P.M.
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20 Reported By:
LINDA BARBOSA
21 CSR No. 2344
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23 JAN GARNETT LOPEZ & ASSOCIATES
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
24 P.O. BOX 4578
WEST HILLS, CA 91308-4578
25 (818) 710-0527
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1 CITY OF CARSON REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
Project Area Committee Members
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3 PAC Member Type
4 TERRY EVERETT Business
VERA ROBLES DeWITT Business
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ISAAC CANALES Community Organization
6 ANNA NAREZ Community Organization
DIANNE THOMAS Community Organization
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PAMELA ACOSTA Resident Owner
8 TRACY RODRIGUEZ Resident Owner
THOMAS PERRETT Resident Owner
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DENNIS CALKINS Resident Tenant
10 SAL DUARTE Resident Tenant
SHERRON FERGUSON Resident Tenant
11 JOE PALICTE Resident Tenant
NEVA ROGERS Resident Tenant
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13 MARGARITA CRUZ, Redevelopment Manager Staff
ERNIE GLOVER Staff
14 GEORGIA MARQUIS Staff
STEVE MASURA, Redevelopment Project Manager Staff
15 JOHN PERFITT, Redevelopment Project Analyst Staff
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RICHARDS, WATSON, GERSHON
17 By: ROBIN D. HARRIS, ATTORNEY AT LAW
355 South Grand Avenue, 40th Floor
18 Los Angeles, California 90071-3101
19
ERNEST W. GLOVERS, PRESIDENT
20 GRC REDEVELOPMENT CONSULTANTS
701 South Parker Street, Suite 7400
21 Orange, California 92868
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Spanish/English Court Interpreter: Elizabeth Z. Sanchez
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1 I N D E X
2 SPEAKERS PAGE
3 CONSUELO ALVAREZ 16
CARLOS BORJA 17
4 RITA SANCHEZ 22
JIMMY SANDER 23
5 EMELIO ASENCE 32
CARLOS CANUTANG 34
6 RAFAEL HIGUERA 38
LETICIA GALOSO 43
7 W. LESCH 44
EILEEN KNOX 47
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1 CARSON, CALIFORNIA; THURSDAY, MAY 2, 2002
2 7:07 P.M.
3 -o0o-
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5 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Good evening,
6 everyone.
7 We are going to get started and I apologize
8 for the delay. This is the Project Area Committee
9 Meeting. Today is May 2 and we welcome all of you here.
10 I want to welcome the new members of the PAC Committee.
11 It looks like we are almost at a full complement. So
12 this is great.
13 We will start out with the roll call.
14 Everyone is here with the exception of Brad Pearl who
15 called in and is excused. Is that correct?
16 Joe Acosta also called. We have got two
17 excused.
18 So what I would like -- one of the things
19 that came up at the last PAC meeting -- a couple of
20 things came up, but one is we need to talk slow enough
21 so that the interpreter is able to interpret what we are
22 saying. So we need to slow down.
23 The second is: Not everybody knew who
24 everybody was. So what I would like to do is have
25 self-introductions starting with the PAC Committee. If
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1 you will say your name -- we will start probably from
2 this end and move up.
3 Say your name and what designation you
4 represent, whether it is the tenant, the homeowner, the
5 community group, and so forth. So if we can start -- we
6 would like to start with Sherron.
7 MS. FERGUSON: My name is Sherron Ferguson and I
8 represent I represent the tenants.
9 MS. RODRIGUEZ: My name is Tracy Rodriguez and I
10 represent the homeowners.
11 MR. CALKINS: My name is Dennis Calkins and I
12 represent the tenants.
13 MS. NAREZ: My name is Anna Narez and I represent
14 the --
15 MS. THOMAS: My name is Dianne Thomas and I
16 represent the concerned residents of Carson Committee
17 and Organization in Carson.
18 MS. ACOSTA: My name is Pamela Acosta and I
19 represent homeowners.
20 MR. PERRETT: My name is Thomas Perrett and I
21 represent the homeowners.
22 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Any members down
23 here?
24 MR. PALICTE: My name is Joe Palicte and I
25 represent the resident tenant.
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1 MR. CANALES: My name is Isaac Canales and I
2 represent the community organization.
3 MS. ROGERS: Neva Rogers, resident tenant.
4 MR. DUARTE: My name is Sal Duarte and I
5 represent resident tenant.
6 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: That is the members
7 of the PAC committee. There is a total of 14 PAC
8 members.
9 And I'm Vera Robles DeWitt. I am
10 chairperson of the PAC Committee.
11 I am going to turn it over to Margarita
12 Cruz to introduce the staff members.
13 MS. CRUZ: My name is Margarita Cruz and I am the
14 Redevelopment Manager.
15 I am going to ask the staff members to
16 stand up as I call their names.
17 There is John Perfitt. He is a
18 Redevelopment Analyst with us. Over there in the far
19 corner is Steven Masura. And next to him stands Philip
20 Tillman and they are both redevelopment project managers
21 with the agency.
22 We also have some consultants with us here
23 today. We have Ernie Glover and he is the consultant
24 helping us put together the redevelopment project or the
25 proposed project area. He is with GRC Redevelopment
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1 Consultants.
2 We also have Robin Harris. She is the
3 attorney working with Richards, Watson & Gershon who is
4 assisting us also. And then we have invited Georgia
5 Marquis who is with Pacific Relocation Consultants. In
6 case we want to get into questions like that, we do have
7 someone who can answer those kinds of questions.
8 We have a stenographer who is at this
9 point -- I don't know her name, but we have someone who
10 is currently taking verbatim minutes. We will have an
11 exact word for word document as to what was said tonight
12 and we are also taping this meeting.
13 So if you would like to have a tape of the
14 meeting -- and we also have someone who is translating.
15 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: And that is a staff
16 member, the young lady who is taping.
17 We have added another new item in which to
18 communicate with the PAC Committee and that is a card, a
19 speaker card. If you wish to ask questions or state any
20 views to the PAC committee, we have the speaker cards
21 that are over here in the back with Steve or somebody.
22 I can't see.
23 They have the cards. So if you want to
24 talk this evening, we have microphones here, please fill
25 out the card and we will call you up. Some of you were
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1 at the town hall meeting on Tuesday. I was not there,
2 but I was able to see the tape. So it is the same
3 process. Everyone will be able to speak or ask their
4 questions and I appreciate your making your voices be
5 heard to the council.
6 All right. We are going to move right
7 along in the approval of the agenda. We have the
8 agenda. There is no changes, corrections. The motion
9 is in order.
10 MS. ROGERS: (Inaudible.)
11 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: The May 2, 2002, the
12 one before us.
13 MR. CANALES: So moved.
14 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Moved by Isaac
15 Canales.
16 MS. THOMAS: Second.
17 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Second by Dianne
18 Thomas.
19 Any discussion?
20 All in favor? This is for the PAC?
21 Any no's?
22 So the agenda is approved as written.
23 I am going to turn it over and remind
24 everybody if you do want to speak, please fill out a
25 card, a comment card.
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1 I turn it over to Margarita.
2 MS. CRUZ: Actually, I am going to turn it over
3 to Ernie Glover. He is going to explain a little bit
4 about the redevelopment formation process to kind of put
5 it into context for those of you who are first coming
6 here for the first time.
7 So, Ernie.
8 MR. GLOVER: Thanks, Margarita.
9 We would like to back up a little bit at
10 this point and talk to you a bit about what
11 redevelopment is and what we are doing here with the
12 plan and what essentially the process is from here on
13 out.
14 The redevelopment plan is really a
15 misstatement. It is not a plan. Not a plan the normal
16 way we think of something like a general plan or a plan
17 to go on vacation. Rather, what it is, it is a document
18 that authorizes the redevelopment agency of the city of
19 Carson to do certain things, to undertake certain
20 financing mechanisms in the project area that we are
21 talking about.
22 So it is really a financing tool for
23 various public improvements, community development, the
24 economic improvement of the area, paving streets,
25 putting in new sewers, putting in -- trying to fix up
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1 the drainage.
2 Any of these things can be done by the
3 redevelopment agency. What redevelopment really does
4 is -- a part of what it does is it redivides the
5 property tax pie. In other words, the dollar of
6 property taxes that you already pay is divided up
7 under -- amongst a great number of different public
8 service agencies.
9 And what it does, redevelopment does, is
10 that it divides this pie so that a little more money is
11 coming back into your community, and it must be spent in
12 your community.
13 And the point is is that it is pretty well
14 documented that there are exceptional needs throughout
15 the project area and that the agency has the authority
16 to redivert some of the money that you are paying out
17 already back into your community.
18 What this money, which is called tax
19 increment, allows the agency to do is undertake a lot of
20 public improvements. It also allows the agency to work
21 with low and moderate income housing, to provide
22 rehabilitation loans and grants, to provide first time
23 home buyer assistance to those who don't currently own.
24 It also allows the agency to work with commercial
25 industrial developers to assemble parcels and
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1 essentially renew or revitalize certain areas like along
2 Carson Boulevard.
3 So essentially the agency is there to
4 provide what I call gap financing or to close the gap
5 between what you as a homeowner, you as a renter, you as
6 a business person or you as a commercial developer in
7 town can afford to do and what is needed to make
8 improvements come about and improvements become reality.
9 Well, as part of this, redevelopment allows -- the
10 redevelopment law allows a redevelopment agency if it is
11 permitted in the redevelopment plan to purchase land.
12 And this land must be purchased to be reused for public
13 benefit. And this could -- but what I am trying to say
14 is the plan does not have to include these things. And
15 this power to purchase land also includes the power of
16 eminent domain.
17 Again, it can be in the plan; it can be out
18 of the plan. That is up to the local community, but the
19 state legislature and the voters of the State of
20 California did say that the redevelopment agency has the
21 authority if they elected to use it. The plan, as I
22 said, is not like a zoning ordinance. It does not
23 change land uses.
24 I understand that there has been a lot of
25 concern that your land use designations might be
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1 changed, that your homes will be removed and replaced by
2 a business. Redevelopment does not do this. That is
3 something that would be required through a change in
4 legislation by the city council.
5 All the plan does is it provides economic
6 and financial tools for the redevelopment agency to
7 undertake its work. Whether or not the plan is adopted,
8 your land uses cannot be changed under redevelopment no
9 matter what.
10 It also does not affect your taxes. As I
11 said before, what happens is that the taxes that you
12 already pay and the taxes obviously that you will pay in
13 the future, property taxes, are redivided so that the
14 city of Carson which now receives seven percent -- in
15 other words, seven cents out of every dollar you pay
16 out -- will receive a larger proposition. Actually,
17 more like about, over the years, about 20 cents on the
18 dollar. That money is to be reinvested into the
19 community. Twenty percent of that money goes to housing
20 for people who make less than 120 percent of the area's
21 average income.
22 One important thing about the redevelopment
23 plan from here on out, the documents have been
24 distributed. The PAC is reviewing them. The PAC
25 tonight will be reviewing the very important item of
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1 eminent domain and making recommendations, hopefully, to
2 the city council regarding whether or not eminent domain
3 should be undertaken or what form it should take. How
4 it should be regulated. How it should be limited. And
5 we will be going into that in a little while.
6 I would also like to say, more from a
7 personal standpoint than anything else that I know that
8 there have been a lot of scary rumors out there and that
9 most of you are really worried about the future of your
10 neighborhoods and homes, and in the same boat, anybody
11 would.
12 The reason we have taken so long, however,
13 to get to the point of talking about the alternatives to
14 eminent domain is that the project area committee who
15 will be making recommendations to the city council, not
16 staff, has been going through a very long education
17 process.
18 Much as all of us need to learn a learning
19 curve so that we can do our jobs well, the PAC needed a
20 learning curve to do its job well. And, believe me, a
21 large part of that concern curve is having time and
22 having the opportunity to listen to the people who live
23 out there.
24 And that takes a while to build up enough,
25 I guess, news so people can get out, but now, at least,
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1 from my prospective we have reached the point that there
2 is enough information and knowledge on the part of the
3 PAC that they have enough information and knowledge to
4 make a good decision and so it is essentially time to
5 lay some of the options out on the table and discuss
6 those options.
7 Thank you.
8 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Thank you, Ernie, for
9 that brief comment.
10 Margarita, did you want to say something?
11 MS. CRUZ: Yes. I also want to say as staff it
12 is not our intent -- to say that, "We are government.
13 Trust us. We know best." It is our intent to hopefully
14 have you ask us questions, to challenge us. So please
15 feel free -- if there are statements that we make that
16 you don't understand, if there are words that we use
17 that you don't understand -- we use this stuff every day
18 and sometimes we need to be brought back to just a
19 regular conversational level. So don't hesitate to ask
20 questions. Ask us to clarify. That is our job. That
21 is what we are here for. I just wanted to make sure
22 that was understood.
23 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: While the
24 presentations were being made, we had another PAC member
25 join us.
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1 Would you introduce yourself.
2 MR. EVERETT: Hello. Good evening. My name is
3 Terry Everett. I am a real estate broker with Everett
4 Real Estate Group. It is located right there at 21941
5 South Avalon Boulevard in Project Area Number 4. And I
6 am representing the business owners.
7 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Thank you.
8 We are on item 2 of the agenda which is
9 "Approval of the Minutes."
10 In our packet PAC members we have the
11 minutes of April 18, but we did not get these ahead of
12 time. They were very lengthy. There are at least ten
13 or more pages on there.
14 So I am thinking that maybe we don't have
15 adequate time review them and to make comments, but we
16 will bring them back to our next meeting, if that is
17 okay with -- if there is a concurrence of the committee
18 that we bring them back on the 16th for approval.
19 MR. CANALES: Do you need a motion on that, or
20 just concurrence?
21 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: I don't think we
22 need -- no. I think absent any dissent, we can bring it
23 back on the 16th, but thank you.
24 Status of the April 25, 2001, minutes,
25 those also were lengthy. They are going to come back to
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1 us on the 16th also?
2 MR. PERFITT: They will be mailed next week. So
3 they will receive them before the 16th.
4 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: So the PAC members
5 will have your minutes of the April 25 mailed to you
6 next week as well as the 18th?
7 MR. PERFITT: Exactly.
8 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: So next week look
9 forward to those.
10 MR. PERFITT: On the 16th we can move to approve
11 both of them.
12 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: We will bring them
13 both up.
14 All right. That is item number 2.
15 The item number 3 is "Public Comments." At
16 this point this is your opportunity to speak to the PAC
17 committee. I have so far two comment cards. So if
18 anyone else from the audience would like to speak -- if
19 you haven't filled out a card, we will let you speak,
20 but then fill out a card afterwards.
21 So at this point I only have two; is that
22 correct?
23 We will call the first person. Consuelo
24 Alvarez.
25 MS. ALVAREZ: (Through the interpreter.) Good
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1 afternoon. I am Consuelo Alvarez. I live on Shearer
2 Street. I have lived there for 37 years and I have a
3 question.
4 I would like to know if we that are in the
5 redevelopment area are going to be able to get an
6 attorney to represent us.
7 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: I will take a shot at
8 that, but I think you might want to hear from the city
9 attorney. The residents at any time can obtain the
10 services of an attorney. If the question is who pays
11 for it might be the reality factor. So let me defer to
12 the city attorney.
13 MS. HARRIS: All I can add is I agree with what
14 you just said.
15 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: So at this point,
16 yes, you are able to agree to secure an attorney. It is
17 just that I don't believe the city will be paying for
18 it.
19 If you need the translation earphones, we
20 still have some more. So those of you who need the
21 Spanish translation from English --
22 Next speaker is Carlos Borja. Is Carlos
23 here?
24 MR. BORJA: Hello. My name Carlos and this is
25 regarding the Keystone area once again. I know we spoke
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1 about it last week and I also confronted the mayor and
2 the councilmen during the meeting on Tuesday.
3 And I believe -- is this correct -- that it
4 takes four members to vote for eminent domain in order
5 for it to go through; right? Is that correct? "Yes" or
6 "no"?
7 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: You know, I think we
8 need some clarification because I saw the tape. My
9 understanding is this PAC will make a recommendation to
10 the city council. If the council does not like the
11 recommendation, it requires four votes to overturn our
12 recommendation.
13 MR. BORJA: It takes four votes for eminent
14 domain to go through.
15 MS. ACOSTA: What the Chair was just saying is
16 that if the PAC recommends against adoption of the
17 redevelopment plan, then it will required a 4/5ths vote
18 of the council in order to adopt the plan as opposed to
19 just a majority vote.
20 I think what you may be asking, though,
21 would be sometime down the road if the redevelopment
22 plan had been adopted and that council -- or, rather,
23 the agency wanted to undertake eminent domain pursuant
24 to the plan, the agency would need to adopt something
25 called a resolution of necessity that requires a 4/5ths
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1 vote in order to initiate an eminent domain action, but
2 that is distinguishable from the actual adoption of the
3 plan that may or may not have eminent domain authority
4 in the plan.
5 MR. BORJA: Okay. Now, let's get back to the
6 area. This is for redevelopment; is that correct?
7 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Yes.
8 MR. BORJA: You know, Keystone has been there a
9 long time. The city of Carson, when it became the city
10 of Carson, ever since it became the city of Carson, it
11 has totally neglected that area, period. Now you guys
12 want to come around and talk about redeveloping it and
13 using eminent domain to get rid of it. That is not
14 going to happen.
15 What you guys need to do is take a good,
16 hard look because it is a real strong community. It
17 stands very strong and it stands united and no one in
18 the city of Carson, whether it be our council members or
19 Mayor Whoever, is going to take our property, our homes
20 or change it in any way.
21 If anything, you will help it which is long
22 overdue. You guys have neglected it for so long. You
23 know that jackrabbit hill, or whatever that sits over
24 the top, every time you guys run the tractors over it,
25 and everything, who gets it? Keystone gets it, all the
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1 dust, all the debris, all the junk.
2 You know, we don't complain. We don't go
3 running to the city of Carson to complain about it, but
4 the minute somebody in Keystone has a yard sale, you
5 guys are all over them, citing them with a ticket, and
6 stuff: "You can't do that here. You have got to go
7 have a permit."
8 Okay. You guys are building these
9 brand-new buildings, industrial buildings on Main
10 Street. You guys have no respect for our neighborhood
11 at all. When we leave to get on Main Street, do you
12 know what we have got to drive through? Dirt, debris
13 all the over the place. Do we go crying to the city of
14 Carson about it?
15 We haven't said a word about it, but did
16 you guys don't clean it up and make it decent. Is there
17 a street sweeper going up and down and taking care of
18 business? No, they are nowhere around. They could care
19 less. It all falls right into our neighborhood. I am
20 still waiting 44 years living in Keystone, born and
21 raised there and bought my home there. I own my
22 business, my own private business, in the city of Carson
23 as a plumbing contractor. I still haven't seen you guys
24 put a dime into that neighborhood. And you guys want to
25 talk about a redevelopment, or are you guys talking
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1 about just taking our homes period. That is not going
2 to happen.
3 I went down Central and I seen those new
4 houses they put up right next to the industrial
5 buildings. If you have gone through there, you will
6 know what I am talking about, but around that property
7 is a nice beautiful block wall. It separates it
8 completely. It's beautiful. You can't even tell the
9 residents are right there next to industrial. You can't
10 even tell. It is so nice.
11 But what are you going to do here? Did you
12 ever stop and think about putting a nice landscape along
13 Main Street and make one side look like residential and
14 the other side look like it is -- an industrial section,
15 whatever, you know. It can be done. It is done in
16 other places.
17 I just feel you guys are totally neglecting
18 our neighborhood 100 percent and it is time for our
19 neighborhood to get up and stand up and demand that
20 something right be done for us.
21 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Thank you, Mr. Borja.
22 Actually, I heard four bullet points that
23 you brought and I am hoping that once our minutes are
24 transcribed, that we send on to the council your
25 concerns about the dust and debris on the 157-acre site,
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1 code enforcement about being a little oppressive on yard
2 sales, construction on Main Street, the street sweeper,
3 try to take care of that problem, and also the block
4 wall or landscaping along Main Street.
5 So that is where I heard specific concerns.
6 And once our minutes are translated, I will ask that
7 this get transferred to the sit city council so they
8 know what your concerns are.
9 Okay. The next speaker is Rita Sanchez.
10 MS. SANCHEZ: I just wanted to address the fact
11 that there are some buildings that have been built. I
12 am not sure exactly what street it is on, but I think it
13 is -- there is a hotel that they started to build, but
14 they just left it there.
15 Why don't they redevelop those things, make
16 those things look nice and leave the homes alone. Not
17 exactly alone, but maybe invest money into helping the
18 homeowners in fixing up their property.
19 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Okay. Thank you,
20 Ms. Sanchez. And I believe I heard the city council say
21 they are undergoing some sort of work at either
22 demolishing or doing something about the Albaturny
23 (phonetic) Hotel. It is a lawsuit right now. It is in
24 litigation.
25 Next speaker, Jimmy Sander, football
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1 player.
2 MR. SANDER: Good evening, everybody. Everybody
3 keeps saying football player, but that is long gone,
4 folks. I am here to represent the community of
5 Keystone.
6 I kind of say it with a little bit of tears
7 in my eyes because I grew up here too since was five
8 years old. And our biggest issue, folks, is what is
9 your plan for the residential section. Will somebody
10 give us an answer? What is your plan? We know what is
11 going on outwardly.
12 And just like Mr. Borja said, we see the
13 dirt. We see the trucks. We see all the stuff being
14 blown our way. You say, "Well, we will talk to the Code
15 enforcement. We will be reactive." As people who are
16 representing the city, you should be proactive. I've
17 worked in the sales business and if we are not
18 proactive, the competition comes and kicks us around the
19 streets.
20 So things of issues that concern these
21 people and myself, dirt blowing in our faces every day,
22 trying to wash our houses, wash our cars every day. It
23 costs us money. It might be peanuts, but it does cost
24 us money.
25 And I think any time there is construction,
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1 there should be proper watering. The maintenance around
2 the area should be kept up so we don't have to put up
3 with this.
4 But getting to the main issue what is the
5 plan for the residential section? We see the big
6 buildings going up around us. We don't even like that.
7 And we can't stop that probably because probably
8 somebody somewhere is making some big bucks off of that,
9 to be honest with you.
10 I am not going to point fingers. I am not
11 going to name names because I don't know and if I did, I
12 would be the first one to be pointing fingers. I used
13 to be on the park commission in this city years ago and
14 the politics of this city drove me out of it.
15 I was here for the children of this city.
16 This city was concerned with one thing in the park
17 commission area which was adult sports. Anybody know
18 why? Can anybody tell me why adult sports was more
19 important than the children sports in this city? Money.
20 The adult sports generated money. The youth sports cost
21 the city money.
22 But these kids -- there are people here
23 that have five, six kids, three, four kids. I grew up
24 with three kids and it cost us money. And it didn't
25 cost the city anything, but they generated all this
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1 money for the adult sports.
2 So getting back to the issue, can somebody
3 tell me what the plan is for the houses?
4 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Okay. Mr. Sander, I
5 do remember you from the parks and recreation
6 commission. Your question is the plan for
7 residential -- and this would be the latest; right?
8 A VOICE: (Inaudible.)
9 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Okay. At the last --
10 before I turn over the mike, at the last PAC meeting we
11 asked the staff to bring us a zoning map. Did that
12 happen today?
13 A VOICE: (Inaudible.)
14 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: The land use, the
15 current zoning.
16 A VOICE: (Inaudible.)
17 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Land use, is that the
18 same as a zoning map?
19 A VOICE: (Inaudible.)
20 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: I am hearing the
21 general plan dictates the zoning.
22 MR. GLOVER: Excuse me, Madam Chair. Yes, the
23 general plan dictates the zoning. So the one that we
24 refer to is the zoning map -- I mean, the general plan
25 map. That is the operative map. In the Keystone area,
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1 it is exclusively zoned for single-family residential
2 and there are no plans to change. No plans whatsoever.
3 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Does that answer your
4 question, Mr. Sander?
5 MR. SANDER: Well, as of now. There are no plans
6 as of now. Are there any future plans to rezone that?
7 MR. GLOVER: No, there are no future plans to
8 rezone that.
9 MR. SANDER: One other question I had because
10 this is kind of what got me thinking about the whole
11 situation was right on the corner where I live they
12 built three -- they are in the process of building three
13 brand-new homes --.
14 And he is talking about -- one of them told
15 me to get off the property because I asked him to water
16 the property. He was going to call the police on me. I
17 said, "Go ahead. I will wait for them to show up," et
18 cetera, et cetera.
19 But these are $350,000 homes. They are
20 two-story. They are pretty cheaply built, to be honest
21 with you. If anybody is intending on buying them,
22 please don't because they are going to fall down. Our
23 old homes on Keystone will out last any earthquake. But
24 somebody from the city okayed that plan. The guy had a
25 good point. He said, "Well, it is better than a gas
27
1 station." He is right, but at the same time he has got
2 me thinking, well, if they are going to build three
3 brand-new homes here, what is the plan? What is the
4 selling point for these people?
5 Well, you know what? You buy this nice
6 brand-new home because I will guarantee you in five
7 years these crummy ones are not going to be here
8 anymore.
9 This doesn't make sense. Those houses are
10 actually an eyesore compared to our houses. Our houses
11 look normal. That is abnormal. And any person with any
12 common sense would wonder, "Well, you know, five years
13 down the road, they will probably take our land and
14 build brand-new homes.
15 If you go looked around the whole
16 neighborhood, if you go around the perimeter, you will
17 see where there has been new homes built over the last
18 five years, the nucleus of our homes, our older homes
19 build in the 40's.
20 So common sense tells you they are building
21 around us. Eventually they are going to come in and try
22 to pull us out of there.
23 MS. CRUZ: Can I answer that real quick?
24 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Sure.
25 MS. CRUZ: You asked us what were our plans for
28
1 the residential area and people wonder why we have
2 included it in the proposed redevelopment project area.
3 Well, you brought up some very specific issues in terms
4 of why don't we turn around and develop programs where
5 we can reinvest in those houses, that you are an
6 established community.
7 And in actuality that you have some
8 infrastructure problems and that there have been
9 problems in the city. The city has not had financial
10 resources to spend in the Keystone area or some of these
11 other residential areas.
12 Our intent when we originally composed the
13 proposed boundaries of this project area -- and we can
14 decide later -- proposal tonight -- was to do exactly
15 that, to turn around and specifically address the issues
16 that you are bringing.
17 We have no intention of redeveloping. The
18 term "redevelopment" is just what California law calls
19 it, but our intent is to create or to be able to
20 generate financing so we can turn around and augment the
21 current city programs.
22 We can turn around and justify modifying
23 say some of grant programs, some of the loan programs
24 that we have existing in this city so that we can turn
25 around and put more money into the Keystone area and
29
1 some of the other residential neighborhoods that we have
2 included in the project area.
3 And that is our intent is to maintain the
4 neighborhoods. I agree with you. The -- doesn't
5 necessarily create a neighborhood atmosphere. It is our
6 intent to address the very issues that you are telling
7 us we need to address.
8 MR. SANDER: Well, first of all, I think the city
9 has plenty of money to invest anywhere it pleases,
10 especially if it concerns financial gain for certain
11 people in the city. There is no doubt about it. There
12 is a lot of money in the city.
13 I have been here probably longer than most
14 people here. There are some people that I grew up in
15 their swimming pools and their backyards, running with
16 their kids in their sprinklers. So don't tell me you
17 don't --
18 Like Mr. Borja's said, Keystone -- nobody
19 even bothered about Keystone. When it rained and it was
20 flooding and down there it was below sea level. People
21 houses were getting flooded. Mr. Canales was there
22 sandbagging. So don't tell me the city don't have no
23 money.
24 Number 2, now you are telling me there is a
25 plan to go ahead and put money into that. First there
30
1 was no plan. Now there is a plan. Am I correct? Say
2 "yes" or "no." There is a plan down the road to put
3 money into that neighborhood. Didn't you say that?
4 MR. GLOVER: Excuse me, sir. This is not a
5 debating session.
6 MR. SANDER: It is not a debate. It is a "yes"
7 or "no."
8 MR. GLOVER: Sir, look, it is not a debate. Give
9 your input, please, and then let other people have a
10 chance to speak. We have a lot of work to get done
11 tonight and a lot of it probably will wind up answering
12 a lot of questions people have.
13 MR. SANDER: Well, I was really nice to the guys
14 in the town hall meeting, but I think some of my people
15 that I talked to in my direct neighborhood, they were
16 here at this meeting last week and they said that the
17 majority of the people that sat up there were trying to
18 blow smoke at these people by talking over them.
19 That is why the issue came up tonight, "If
20 you don't understand our terminology, please let us
21 know." So I think that is the case right now. You are
22 trying to get me out of here because you don't want to
23 hear the truth.
24 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Mr. Sander, I chair
25 the PAC Committee and that is certainly not our intent
31
1 to get rid of anybody who is vocal or says anything
2 contrary. So let me assure you we do care about what
3 you are saying.
4 Your question goes back to the financial
5 resources, whether or not now there is going to be money
6 for the infrastructure or the main repairs such as
7 flooding and the streets and so on. I think that is
8 what they are talking with the redevelopment. It gives
9 them more of a tool to have money.
10 And, yes, Keystone has been ignored, no
11 question about it, over the years, but that is a
12 situation of -- public officials make that decision at
13 budget time.
14 And let me just go back to one other
15 comment because I do have the privilege of saying I did
16 found the boys and girls club for that very reason.
17 There were was no athletic programs affordable for the
18 kids. So priorities are changing.
19 I think your voice is being heard. What I
20 took from the last town hall meeting, they heard you
21 loud and clear. So you just have to keep vigilant. You
22 can't go to sleep with the government.
23 MR. SANDER: We will, but it's a problem that we
24 didn't want to have to fight city hall because I think
25 you people should be empathetic with us in the fact that
32
1 they know what we are going through. These are our
2 homes. This is our life, and this is where we plan on
3 staying like Mr. Borja said.
4 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: And in all fairness
5 to the new members of the PAC and to the older members,
6 not by age, but by seniority on the PAC, we are hearing
7 you. We are listening. We are just again going through
8 a learning curve.
9 We are listening. When we come up with our
10 final recommendation, I am sure all the comments will be
11 addressed.
12 MR. SANDER: I hope we will be good teachers for
13 you. Thank you.
14 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Thank you,
15 Mr. Sander.
16 Next speaker Emelio Asence.
17 MR. ASENCE: Good evening. I am not really a
18 long time resident of Carson. I just live here since
19 1984. And I have attended this meeting just for I think
20 twice only. And I am so confused on what you guys are
21 talking about.
22 You are talking about the development plan,
23 but we haven't heard about what is the plan. What are
24 we developing here? Is this plan really just being for
25 the sake of getting funding from what you call a share
33
1 from the real estate taxes?
2 If that is so, it breaks up where we are
3 getting seven cents to a dollar. We can estimate how
4 much this is. Now, if we could estimate how much it is,
5 then we could really plan what is the development that
6 we are going to do with this place. Without that, we
7 are just discussing vague ideas of what we are going to
8 do.
9 And these people around me here are
10 listening, and you want to have an input. They cannot
11 have an input simply because they can't understand.
12 Now, the issue has to be at hand. What I understand is
13 you are putting a plan which really is not just a plan.
14 Correct me if I am wrong.
15 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Mr. Asence, let
16 me point out that on today's agenda, item number 6 under
17 "New Business," that is the draft redevelopment plan
18 discussion.
19 So we are going to get to it tonight and
20 maybe that will answer some of your questions, but if it
21 doesn't, then at that point if you would like to ask
22 another question. But we are going to hit on that
23 tonight. This is the meeting that it is scheduled for.
24 So then you will have a better idea and a sense of what
25 the redevelopment agency and the staff wants to go on
34
1 this. Okay?
2 MR. ASENCE: Thank you. That will help us.
3 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Yes. Item 6. We are
4 going to get to it.
5 Are there any other public comments?
6 Why don't you give him your slip of paper
7 and then go to the microphone.
8 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Carlos Canutang.
9 MR. CANUTANG: I live on Shearer. This is like
10 the third meeting I have been to and I come because I
11 live on the street a long time and it is a bit more glue
12 for proposed eminent domain and then the rest of the
13 neighborhood too. And this is the third meeting and I
14 am still scared. It is very scary the idea that you
15 people are just going to just take our homes and then
16 build -- you know, I'm really happy with the city for
17 all the wonderful accomplishments they have made over
18 the years and all the accomplishments they are
19 accomplishing now, but I guess the basic point is as an
20 older family that has an older home, do we still have
21 the right to exist here, or do we just get ran over by
22 progress.
23 What other options do we have? Like with
24 the other hand like these gentlemen mentioned, you know,
25 what is the plan? Can we get a copy of this plan? Can
35
1 we see the plan?
2 Can we be able to -- if any of you know any
3 lawyers, if you have any lawyers, I think you should
4 start calling them. I don't know. All these meetings
5 sound real shaky. I think the bottom line, they are
6 just going to recommend -- they are just going to say,
7 "Yeah, right," and, boom, and we are out.
8 And that is my gut feeling and I hope I am
9 wrong, you know, but somebody went to great lengths to
10 draw this map and a lot of money is involved in that.
11 And I know that is going to -- like the other gentleman
12 said here, it is going to profit somebody. And I guess
13 us poor folks we are just going to be knocked out of the
14 way.
15 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: No, I don't think you
16 need to say that. That is not the case. We are here to
17 listen, but there is a process that we have to go
18 through and it is spelled out in the laws. Each meeting
19 that we have, we get to the point where we are today.
20 We will see a draft redevelopment plan today.
21 And there are copies available if you want
22 to see that. We are going to discuss that under Item 6
23 of our agenda. So I hate to say, "Stay tuned," but you
24 should stay tuned.
25 You have an interest in it and you want to
36
1 make sure your views are heard. So once we go through
2 the whole process, this group will make a recommendation
3 to the city council. Hopefully it will take into
4 everyone's account --
5 MR. CANUTANG: Do they have a right to reject
6 your proposal?
7 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: And you need to be
8 vigilant with the city council, but I did hear them.
9 There was an article in the newspaper that most of the
10 council members are not in favor of eminent domain on
11 the residences.
12 MR. CANUTANG: Do they have the option to change
13 their minds?
14 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Yes. Government can
15 always change their mind, but I think there were several
16 points that came up at that town hall meeting.
17 Number 1, there is not going to be four
18 members of the city council to overturn anything at this
19 point. We are in a state of uncertainty in terms of our
20 elected officials. And the other is that our
21 recommendation will be put forth. Whether we go any
22 further than that this year or not, it will be of some
23 question.
24 MR. CANUTANG: Thank you.
25 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Mr. Canales.
37
1 MR. CANALES: Mr. Chairman, point of information.
2 When we keep saying that we don't have a quorum on the
3 city council to overturn an action, are we assuming that
4 we are proposing something from this committee that they
5 would overturn, or could it be possible that they would
6 be approving something? This could be suggested or
7 recommended against eminent domain.
8 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: You are correct.
9 Whatever we recommend to the city council, if they want
10 to overturn it they need four.
11 There won't be four because one council
12 member is precluded, is not allowed to vote on this
13 because she owns property. We have one vacancy. So
14 there won't be four. However, they can adopt our
15 recommendation and that would be nice.
16 MR. CANALES: See, that is what I am talking
17 about. In case that -- because we are hearing our
18 community, that we should recommend something that is
19 amenable to our community, then that would be a time
20 type of approval rather than a rejection.
21 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: You are correct and I
22 think we all share that same view. We are going to
23 listen to everybody and make our recommendation
24 accordingly.
25 Okay. We do have an area for comments, if
38
1 you want to address it now, but I would like to move on
2 with the public comments.
3 MR. DUARTE: Just in case, I have been sitting
4 here for a few minutes and this is my first meeting
5 here. I am a new member.
6 Just so you know -- I didn't know last
7 week, but most of us here -- I know four for sure that
8 live in the immediate impacted area. And we are not
9 here necessarily just for the city. We are also here
10 for you.
11 So that is the reason we are sitting here
12 because directly myself, and I know somebody else on
13 this panel, has a relative directly in the eminent
14 domain suggested area. So we are not just here for the
15 city. We are also here for you guys.
16 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Thank you,
17 Mr. Duarte.
18 And for the information of the audience,
19 all of us are impacted. Everyone who serves on here is
20 because we are impacted.
21 Okay. Mr. Ralph Higuera. And after
22 Mr. Higuera is Ken Booher.
23 MR. HIGUERA: My first meeting. I am going to
24 participate in this. "New Business," we are going to
25 see today the draft of the redevelopment plan that PAC
39
1 committee is developing? We are going to present it to
2 the state of California?
3 Is that -- because the state has their
4 plan; right? Like what we are supposed to have, the
5 parks, and then we have to choose where in the city this
6 has to be done?
7 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: You might be
8 mistaking the general plan. We have control of what is
9 happening. Today's draft redevelopment plan is what we
10 are discussing for Carson. The state doesn't get
11 involved. It will eventually go for their approval, but
12 not --
13 MR. HIGUERA: If so, my question is: Are we
14 trying to make the city bigger, more -- like they were
15 saying something about Carson Street. Do they want
16 people to come and shop? Is that what they want, or do
17 they want to keep a small town?
18 Myself, I work in the community where it
19 was kind of made big and then they didn't like it
20 anymore. They had to kind of tone it down. They want
21 an old town city where -- get rid of the enclosed malls.
22 Who wants to shop indoors? They want outdoor malls,
23 walking, people talking, small town, small community,
24 everybody knows everybody. Is that what we are looking
25 for in the city of Carson, or a big city where nobody
40
1 knows anybody?
2 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Let me have her
3 respond. Margarita.
4 MS. CRUZ: The draft plan doesn't regulate
5 values, et cetera. To the extent that we come up with
6 some kind of additional land use mechanism through the
7 planning commission, that will be something that will
8 undergo a community process where we will entertain
9 input from the public.
10 So to the extent that we try to decide the
11 future of Carson Street, that will be something that the
12 community will have an opportunity to input. There are
13 no specific -- we are not talking about Pasadena. We
14 are not talking -- we are talking about something for
15 the residents.
16 MR. HIGUERA: We are talking about the city of
17 Carson. I didn't say Pasadena.
18 MS. CRUZ: When I say that, I am not talking
19 about this large -- I am talking about something that
20 ends up for the benefit of the residents of Carson.
21 MR. HIGUERA: Our community -- what I am trying
22 to say is: I remember when I was a little kid, I know
23 nothing except for the city of Carson all my life and my
24 son is going to live there. We live there now. We
25 chose to buy a house there, raise my family there. I
41
1 brought my wife to live there. And we are going to live
2 there forever.
3 No one is ever going to take my home
4 because we won't allow that. Our community is too
5 strong. It won't happen, but the thing is I want it to
6 be beautiful. We want flowers growing in our garden and
7 we want trees in our parks, but we want small --
8 Keystone is small.
9 We wake up Sunday morning when we are
10 washing our cars and we all meet and buy corn and
11 tamales off the vendors. And then here comes, like I
12 said, the public works guy and runs them off. So we
13 don't get breakfast and we don't get to feed our kids,
14 but we like our small community and I think we want to
15 keep it that way. I think that is why we don't complain
16 about the dirt and stuff like that.
17 And I would like to see our community stay
18 small instead of big and large and have everybody come
19 in, shopping at our malls and our stores and we don't
20 even know who they are.
21 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Okay. Thank you,
22 Mr. Higuera.
23 Ken Booher, and after Mr. Booher, Leticia
24 Galoso.
25 MR. BOOHER: I moved here to Carson there on
42
1 Shearer Street back in 1957. That is back when cars had
2 fins. And I remember when I first moved there, there
3 was garbage in the streets. People burning their
4 garbage in the streets.
5 I've seen at least eight people get shot to
6 death on just that one block. One guy across the street
7 got cut in two with an assault rifle. Now, the
8 community -- Shearer Street has come together and it has
9 never looked so good.
10 Everybody got behind and got rolling,
11 started fixing up their houses. It has never been so
12 good. I walk that street every night with my two
13 Rottweilers and I don't carry my gun anymore. It has
14 gotten that good.
15 Now, with this redevelopment, everybody on
16 Shearer Street has stopped because it is like everything
17 has been suspended because nobody knows what is coming
18 next. And it took 45 years to get that momentum to
19 clean that street up and now it is in neutral again.
20 So the people need information now so we
21 can get back to fixing up Shearer Street. That is all
22 I've got to stay.
23 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Thank you,
24 Mr. Booher.
25 I just wonder if it is the two Rottweilers
43
1 that secure your security there.
2 Leticia Galoso, and then W. Lesch on
3 Dominguez Street, 116 East Dominguez.
4 MS. GALOSO: My name is Leticia and I have been
5 living there for the past 20 years and my parents have
6 actually two houses there. My dad is retired. My mom
7 is a homemaker. How do you expect older people like
8 that to just get out of their homes.
9 I mean, my dad doesn't work. What do you
10 expect him to do? Homeless. I mean, you guys don't
11 want to -- like other people said, you guys do neglect
12 that part of the neighborhood. I mean, there was a lot
13 of gangsters. I would always hear the helicopters,
14 gunshots, couldn't go out.
15 My brother and I didn't become no
16 gangsters. We never got involved in drugs or anything
17 like that. There was never cops there and if they were,
18 they were probably one of the gangsters. And that is
19 not right. That is just not right.
20 But like I said, how are we as residents
21 living there are going to benefit from all this.
22 What -- you guys are just going to give us a couple of
23 thousand dollars for our homes and that's it. Some of
24 these people already have their homes paid for and they
25 can't afford to pay another mortgage. Houses as it is
44
1 right now they are very expensive; I mean very, very
2 expensive. They could go up up to -- probably the
3 lowest, $200,000.
4 People cannot afford that, especially in
5 that neighborhood. There is a lot of retired people,
6 like I said, and it is just not fair.
7 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Thank you. We heard
8 you loud and clear. You don't favor eminent domain;
9 right?
10 Okay. I don't know the last name on this
11 person 160 East Dominguez, W. Lesch?
12 MR. LESCH: Lesch.
13 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: I'm sorry. What is
14 it?
15 MR. LESCH: Lesch.
16 I am Lesch. I have been married 48 years.
17 I bought this property. When you opened the back door,
18 you'd fall into a ten foot hole. I had that all built
19 in, bench around it and everything. I added more rooms
20 to it with a permit. And what are we going to do if we
21 have to move? The people here want to know what is
22 going to happen.
23 Second problem is: When are we going to
24 get to vote? Are we going to vote, or are you going to
25 have your community -- you said four people to vote.
45
1 Are you going to take four people, or are these people
2 have the right to walk up and sign their name "yes" or
3 "no"?
4 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: The process as it
5 stands is the PAC committee will do the vote on the
6 recommendation to the city council. The city council
7 then votes to either adopt --
8 MR. LESCH: Yeah, but don't the people get to
9 vote?
10 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Let me have the city
11 attorney.
12 MR. LESCH: That is what we want to know. When
13 can we get up --
14 MS. HARRIS: The public doesn't actually get to
15 vote, but there will be a public hearing before the city
16 council and the agency before they make any decision.
17 And any interested person can come to that public
18 hearing and testify or turn something in in writing to
19 the council.
20 MR. GLOVER: I would like to remind you that as
21 any other legislative action, redevelopment plans are
22 subject to referendum and that is the point. If a
23 referendum petition is successful, that is the point in
24 which the people can vote. At that time the city
25 council has to take action first.
46
1 MR. LESCH: Yeah, but don't these people get to
2 vote?
3 MR. GLOVER: If there is a referendum, the people
4 vote.
5 MR. LESCH: Right now --
6 MR. GLOVER: Sir, I am telling you, the people
7 get to vote.
8 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Mr. Lesch, let me
9 clarify. As I said, the process is: This committee
10 will vote and make a recommendation. Then the city
11 council will vote.
12 Now, if the public, you, the community, is
13 not happy, what the consultant was saying was that a
14 process, a constitutional right that we have as citizens
15 for a referendum, we could overturn it and then have a
16 vote, yes.
17 Referendums -- if the public is not happy
18 of a vote of their elected official, they have the
19 option of getting enough signatures on a petition,
20 calling for an election and overturning the process. So
21 there are a lot of safeguards in the process. And I can
22 tell you, overturning a trash contract, it works.
23 MR. LESCH: I don't think these people want to
24 sell. That is why they are here. They don't want this
25 project that you want to put in. They move our homes
47
1 out to put warehouses in. They have enough warehouses
2 there now right on Main Street. It is all warehouses
3 all the way down.
4 So we don't want our houses moved out to
5 put a warehouse. Where are we going to move to? If you
6 say you are going to give us $100,000 for our house,
7 where are you going to find another house to live in for
8 a 100,000.
9 You are going to have to pay 200,000 and
10 you will still be in debt. A lot of these people can't
11 afford that.
12 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Thank you, Mr. Lesch.
13 Eileen Knox.
14 MS. KNOX: Hi. I wanted to make sure that I had
15 a clear understanding. This is my maybe third or fourth
16 meeting that I have attended, PAC meeting. So some of
17 you might remember I tried to get on the committee a
18 couple of meetings ago. But I was under the impression
19 that the Project Area Committee was basically the voice
20 of the people and that the reason why we come to these
21 meetings is so that we can be told what is actually
22 going on.
23 What I am seeing in the last few meetings
24 that I have gone to, not only the PAC ones, but the town
25 hall meetings as well is that they turn into gripe
48
1 sessions and we don't end of getting far enough on the
2 business that we came actually came to speak on. So
3 maybe if we can finally get to the business, I would
4 love to know what the redevelopment plan is as well as
5 what the environmental impact report talks about as well
6 as the general plan as well too.
7 So maybe if we can get to that, we can get
8 a better understanding and have the public comments
9 after, we might have better questions. We are all
10 asking the same questions, it sounds like.
11 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Okay. That concludes
12 our public comments. So we are going to move on to Item
13 Number 4 on the agenda which is the "Reports," the draft
14 environmental impact report distribution. And I know
15 somebody is going to speak to this issue, but if there
16 are individuals -- the environmental impact report is
17 probably about a thousand pages thick. It is available
18 to anybody who has a computer and wants to use a CD
19 drive.
20 There is a CD disk available for a dollar
21 and you can download it on your commuter. So it is
22 available and that is what we will be discussing on this
23 document.
24 Who is going to take me on this? Ernie?
25 MR. GLOVER: Just about the E.I.R. Very briefly
49
1 the environmental impact report, the one that would tip
2 anybody's wagon, the environmental impact report is
3 required by state law in that virtually any plan of this
4 sort requires a thorough review of traffic, air quality,
5 cultural resources, land uses, you name it. A review of
6 the physical environmental effects -- the physical and
7 environmental effects of the project.
8 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Can you talk into the
9 microphone? We can't hear you.
10 MR. GLOVER: -- the physical and environmental
11 effects of a project.
12 Maybe somebody can turn the amplifier up
13 just a bit.
14 The E.I.R. is an information document that
15 is sent out for public review and will be open for
16 public review through June 13, or 45 days, and you are
17 certainly, if you wish to comment on it, invited, as a
18 matter of fact, encouraged to write comment letters on
19 the E.I.R., but it is a very informative document,
20 though long.
21 The city council and the redevelopment
22 agency, prior to taking any action on the plan, must
23 certify that the environmental impact report is
24 adequate, and this includes any findings.
25 They don't approve it as such. There is
50
1 nothing to approve, but they don't deny it as such. But
2 rather they say, "This in your opinion is an adequate
3 document and we have taken it into consideration in our
4 decision."
5 This is being distributed to the PAC, not
6 because it is required to be distributed to the PAC, but
7 rather because it is very informative for them in the
8 future. So it would provide a very good background
9 document.
10 The PAC is also free to make any comments
11 it wishes to make on the E.I.R. Again, there are copies
12 of the environmental impact report in the back and I
13 would be more than happy to answer any questions on it
14 although I am not a technical expert on environmental
15 issues.
16 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: That is for
17 informational purposes. Again, I want to tell the
18 audience, it is the draft environmental impact report.
19 It is available on CD. The staff has some back there
20 for a dollar, or the document is available at the
21 library, our Carson library and you can see it is a very
22 thick document.
23 Yes, Mr. Canales?
24 MR. CANALES: Point of information. Question of
25 Mr. Glover.
51
1 Mr. Glover, is the environmental impact
2 report basically a value-free type of report, or would
3 it incline the PAC committee or city council to have a
4 tendency towards accepting any kind of eminent domain?
5 MR. GLOVER: The environmental impact report is
6 an objective document. I presume that is what you mean
7 by "value-free."
8 MR. CANALES: Exactly.
9 MR. GLOVER: It makes no recommendations one way
10 or the other. It just sets up pluses or minuses. It
11 doesn't address eminent domain in great detail because
12 that's not considered to be an environmental issue, but
13 it does address eminent domain with the fact that it is
14 there.
15 MR. CANALES: In a sense would it set up anything
16 for eminent domain? In other words, would it point out
17 blighted areas or --
18 A VOICE: (Inaudible.)
19 MR. CANALES: Okay. Fine. Thank you.
20 MR. GLOVER: However, it does include what are
21 called mitigation measures which are basically the
22 standard protections that people in the redevelopment
23 project area and outside the redevelopment project area
24 have with regards to the use of the government power to
25 purchase land.
52
1 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Are there any other
2 questions by the PAC committee?
3 All right. We will move on to number 5
4 "Old Business," eminent domain alternatives discussion.
5 Mr. Glover.
6 MR. GLOVER: Bear with me. I am trying new
7 technology here tonight.
8 What I would like to do is layout several
9 options -- or seven options for eminent domain. These
10 aren't the only options, but they provide essentially a
11 range of choices.
12 And what I would like to do is show you a
13 little bit on the map what the effects of each of these
14 options is and what some of the options could accomplish
15 and what some of the concerns and issues with each of
16 the options is.
17 So let's go on to the next one. I don't
18 know why we have this duplicate here. As you see I have
19 "page 11" down here also.
20 (Mr. Glover was projecting documents
21 onto a screen.)
22 MR. GLOVER: Option 1 is to purchase property by
23 eminent domain to allows for all of the proposed project
24 area. Essentially everything in yellow up here would be
25 subject to eminent domain. That essentially is the
53
1 broadest or most -- yes. That essentially is the
2 broadest option available to you. This option would
3 allow the agency to maximize its flexibility in
4 achieving community goals.
5 It gives us the broadest powers to purchase
6 land. It would make the revitalization of Main Street
7 easier. It would also allow the agency to get involved
8 in creating a buffer between a Keystone neighborhood and
9 the three sites surrounding commercial industrial
10 operations.
11 It would help the revitalization of Carson
12 Street and it would make land assembly possible if there
13 is a holdout for a particularly very important
14 development. I am not saying that there would be. It
15 has never been used in Carson. Well, what are some of
16 the concerns.
17 One of the concerns is that relocation
18 could upset existing family support networks or existing
19 neighborhoods. I think we have heard that, that
20 relocation expenses, otherwise the cost to the agency of
21 moving people, could be substantial and redevelopment
22 agency financial assistance may be required for a lot of
23 people.
24 It could be -- a lot of purchasing could
25 provide a significant burden on the agency. Essentially
54
1 it won't be able to accomplish its goals because it is
2 too busy paying to move people. So why did they
3 purchase the land in the first place.
4 Then there is also an uncertainty and
5 concern by property owners caused by the possible use of
6 eminent domain. It is big change. It is, frankly,
7 quite scary. And so that really is a concern and a
8 major issue of this threat to power.
9 The second option is to limit eminent
10 domain so that there is no purchase anywhere by eminent
11 domain of residentially zoned property with a
12 residential use on it. So, for instance, that would
13 functionally remove Shearer, remove Keystone, remove any
14 other residential neighborhood from eminent domain.
15 What would this look like on a map? All
16 the red areas are zoned residential. That means that
17 none of those areas would be subject to eminent domain.
18 by the way, for your information, you see these little
19 yellow lines that look like varicose veins? Those are
20 streets.
21 But nevertheless these areas, all these red
22 dots and splotches and rectangles would be exempt from
23 any eminent domain authority. The yellows would still
24 be eminent domain because they are not residential
25 areas. They are commercial and industrial areas.
55
1 What could this accomplish and what are
2 some of the concerns? The agency can still implement
3 many of its economic and community revitalization goals.
4 The agency would be able to assemble nonconforming
5 property. In other words, property that has, say, for
6 instance, commercial property with residential
7 development use on it.
8 It could remove some incompatible land
9 uses. Purchase of residentially zoned property would
10 only be with the consent -- I stress: "Only with the
11 consent of the property owner." It can't be -- that is
12 not eminent domain. It is an open market purchase. It
13 would help assure residential neighborhoods that their
14 homes would be protected.
15 And I might say that this is a very common
16 limit in redevelopment plans. And I do about 12 of
17 these plans a year one way or the other. And I think in
18 at least half of them we have this limit in one form or
19 the other. So it is very common. It is a very widely
20 accepted limitation on eminent domain.
21 Nonconforming residential units may be
22 purchased by eminent domain. This obviously would be of
23 concern to the people who live in or own that property.
24 Relocation expenses would still be -- could be very high
25 although limited, much more limited than if you were
56
1 really radical with your approach to eminent domain.
2 What is a third option? That would be no
3 purchase anywhere by eminent domain of residentially
4 used property. This could make a difference. One of
5 them you are saying residentially zoned property. Here
6 we are saying -- with a residence on it. Here we are
7 saying all residences.
8 So what would this do? Well, the orange
9 are the areas that would be basically exempted. You see
10 kind of an oddity down here, which if that is zoned
11 residential, but it doesn't have any residences on it.
12 So it would be subject to eminent domain. It is
13 actually nursery.
14 But the properties in Orange would be
15 exempted from eminent domain. Again you see Shearer and
16 Keystone would then exempted. There would be no eminent
17 domain. Well, what would this accomplish? The purchase
18 of nonresidential properties would still be possible,
19 say up and down Carson Street for assembling development
20 parcels.
21 It would be possible to implement fairly
22 limited, but still effective community and economic
23 revitalization goals. It should assure residential
24 neighborhoods that their homes will be protected. And
25 again this is a very common limit and very widely used
57
1 in the profession.
2 Community and economic revitalization goals
3 for Carson Street would be substantially limited because
4 of the number of residents on the street that are
5 nonconforming.
6 Limited revitalization activity would
7 reduce the potential long-term financial resources
8 available for economic development and investment
9 infrastructure and these kinds of things because there
10 would be essentially less tax increment and may continue
11 some blighting conditions on nonconforming properties.
12 So those are some of the pluses and minuses.
13 What about number 4? This is the last of
14 the approaches or options that would apply to the whole
15 project area. And this would say no on eminent domain,
16 period, exclamation point, nada, nothing. And the
17 yellow -- everything in yellow would be exempt from
18 eminent domain.
19 That is just -- obviously that is the exact
20 opposite of option number 1. What are some of the --
21 what could this accomplish? It would certainly help
22 assure residential neighborhoods that their homes would
23 not be purchased by eminent domain. It would also mean
24 that purchase of property could only be done through an
25 open market negotiation and it must be with property
58
1 owner consent.
2 Concerns and issues. Community and
3 economic revitalization goals would be substantially
4 limited. The agency wouldn't have the power to purchase
5 and assemble parcels except for just on open market
6 competitive bid.
7 The community and economic revitalization
8 goals for Main Street would be substantially limited.
9 It would be very difficult to solve some of the problems
10 there. And then there would be limited revitalization
11 activity.
12 With -- this limited revitalization
13 activity would again reduce the cash flow potential for
14 the project area which would reduce what the agency can
15 do in terms of public works, in terms of community
16 development, housing and so forth. So these, again, are
17 the trade-offs.
18 I would like to say just very quickly here
19 that if there is a limited -- a policy in the plan to
20 limit the use of eminent domain, that becomes the law of
21 the city. It is adopted by ordinance. And it can be
22 changed.
23 There is -- an amendment can be put
24 through, but let me stress that that kind of an
25 amendment would require the election of a PAC if the PAC
59
1 has gone out of business since then, or else this PAC'S
2 overview. It would require many community meetings like
3 we are having tonight. It would require just a complete
4 planned option process all over again. So it is not
5 something that anybody takes on lightly.
6 Let's go on to the next one.
7 The next two involve an area specific use
8 of eminent domain. One is the -- that the purchase of
9 residential properties by eminent domain can be limited
10 only to the 600-foot area along Carson Street. Then to
11 the west is Shearer Street into all other commercial and
12 industrial properties and into some specific substandard
13 trailer parks.
14 So outside of that there would be no
15 eminent domain, residential eminent domain. What that
16 would do is say that you would have all the -- inside
17 this purple area here. And then you can hardly see it,
18 but up and down Shearer here on the west side of Shearer
19 or the side of Shearer that is closer to Main Street
20 there would be residential eminent domain.
21 The reason for the 600-foot depth is that
22 that provides basically for a very good depth for future
23 commercial development. It works very well from a
24 design standpoint, but outside this area there would be
25 both residential and commercial industrial eminent
60
1 domain.
2 So -- but there would be no residential
3 eminent domain outside these areas. So essentially what
4 you see in yellow would be exempted unless it is
5 commercial or industrial. That is another option.
6 Then there is essentially a subset of that
7 option which is -- I'm sorry. We are here (indicating).
8 The agency can implement its economic and community
9 revitalization goals fairly well in designated areas.
10 It has what it needs to get the work done.
11 Revitalization of Main Street would be possible.
12 It would also allow for the creation of a
13 buffer for the Keystone area like through walls and
14 landscaping and structure and compatible residential
15 and commercial units. It will assure the property
16 owners and residents outside that 600-foot designated
17 area that their properties will remain free of eminent
18 domain.
19 There are still concerns and issues.
20 Relocation, especially inside that area and along
21 Shearer could upset existing family support or the
22 neighborhood.
23 Relocation expenses could prove to be
24 substantial and there would still be a lot of
25 uncertainty and concern for people who live inside the
61
1 radius.
2 What about number 6? This is the same as
3 number 5, only the Shearer, west side of Shearer, the
4 side that is nearest Main Street would be exempted from
5 eminent domain.
6 And so the map looks pretty much the same,
7 only there is no purple up and down Shearer Street. It
8 would be exempted from any kind of residential eminent
9 domain. So we would only have residential purchase by
10 eminent domain inside that purchase area. Everything
11 else is exempt.
12 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Is everyone back
13 there able to hear them? We can't stop the music next
14 door because they obviously paid to use the facility,
15 but can you hear him in the back, or would you like him
16 to stand up?
17 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.
18 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Take the mike out of
19 the -- all the committee members, turn their mikes off.
20 Just flip the little switch and that will --
21 MR. GLOVER: Okay. Can you all hear me now?
22 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: Yes.
23 MR. GLOVER: So this is the area that would be
24 with residential eminent domain. Everything else would
25 be exempted residential eminent domain. Well, what
62
1 could it accomplish and what would some of the concerns
2 and issues be?
3 It would allow the agency definitely to
4 continue an awful lot of its revitalization programs.
5 The revitalization of Carson Street would definitely be
6 made possible.
7 However, the revitalization of Main Street
8 and the providing of the buffers would be problematic,
9 at best, or would be difficult to implement, at best.
10 And it would definitely limit the potential impacts on
11 residential neighborhoods.
12 What are some of the concerns? Well,
13 again, we are not eliminating all the residential
14 neighborhoods. So there could be some effects there.
15 The relocation expenses could be considerable,
16 especially if expanding commercial into residential
17 areas and uncertainty and concern would remain for those
18 who live within the radius.
19 But, on the other hand, the vast majority
20 of residences are removed from residential eminent
21 domain. So it is kind of a compromise option.
22 Let's go on to 7. The seventh really isn't
23 eminent domain. The seventh simply says, "Remove the
24 Keystone neighborhood from the redevelopment project
25 area." As simple as that. It can be done. The
63
1 planning commission can just simply say it is out and
2 the redevelopment agency would affirm that in some way.
3 They would say, "Yeah, we agree. It should be out."
4 And that is all there is to it.
5 Well, what would happen? Obviously you see
6 that the Keystone area is no longer in yellow. So it
7 would be outside the project area. There would be no
8 redevelopment in there.
9 With this option definitely the residential
10 neighborhoods up there in Keystone and along Shearer
11 would be protected. There wouldn't be any
12 redevelopment. The city couldn't use its eminent domain
13 authority up there except for streets and arts and these
14 kinds of things.
15 Concerns and issues. Well, redevelopment
16 funds would not be available for public infrastructure
17 on as large a scale as would be otherwise, mainly
18 because the agency can't spend money outside the project
19 area unless there is a direct and measurable benefit to
20 the project area as a whole.
21 That would make it very difficult to invest
22 any money into Keystone. It would be also difficult,
23 then, to complete a lot of the infrastructure projects.
24 Housing rehabilitation in Keystone would be limited to
25 existing city programs.
64
1 There was some talk at the last meeting
2 about a second round of grants for people and that
3 wouldn't be doable because there wouldn't be the money
4 available through the redevelopment housing set aside.
5 There would be -- the next line it says that. Then
6 finally, again, it would make redevelopment difficult
7 along Main Street. It would also resolve a lot of the
8 concerns that a lot of people have. So these are
9 basically seven options.
10 MS. ROGERS: I would like to ask a question
11 because I don't think the people all understand what the
12 word "infrastructure" means. I understand it, but I
13 think maybe the citizens that are here might not
14 understand that word.
15 MR. GLOVER: Okay. That is a good question.
16 Infrastructure is all your streets, your
17 sidewalks, curbs, the landscaping on those streets,
18 everything that is in the streets such as your water,
19 sewer, electricity -- that is over the streets. Gas,
20 telecommunications, cables. Anything that is there plus
21 bridges.
22 Basically the whole bundle of community
23 public facilities is known as the infrastructure. And
24 it is a lazy term that we all tend to use to -- when we
25 want to talk about all of it wrapped together, we tend
65
1 to use the word "infrastructure."
2 So that is what is meant by infrastructure.
3 You can break it down into any number of different
4 categories, the streets, the bridges, for instance. We
5 call that circulation system. Then all the flood
6 control, the drainage channels, culverts. All these
7 things of our flood control system, that is part of the
8 infrastructure.
9 When you pick up the phone and dial
10 somebody, you are using the public infrastructure to a
11 certain degree for all those cables and lines that must
12 run. So all of these things.
13 This building is, in a sense, part of the
14 infrastructure in that it provides a service to the
15 city.
16 And what I am trying to do is get to a list
17 that I went right by. So please bear with me.
18 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Mr. Glover, can you
19 tell me, are these seven objectives or options in a
20 written document somewhere? And I don't know about the
21 rest of the PAC committee, but we were writing
22 furiously.
23 MR. GLOVER: I am going to get them up on the
24 screen in just a second.
25 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: But my question is:
66
1 The committee would probably appreciate having a copy of
2 these options because we are going to have to decide on
3 them.
4 MR. GLOVER: Well, the only place it is all
5 written down is in my notes right now, but we can
6 certainly get them typed up and delivered to you.
7 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Every one of those
8 pictures -- I am sure your computer is hooked up to a
9 printer. At some point we can just get a copy of those.
10 MR. GLOVER: Sure. We can get them to you.
11 Okay. Here are all seven options on the
12 screen.
13 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Let me -- so
14 committee member Canales.
15 MR. CANALES: Yes, I have a question on
16 information for Mr. Glover. I don't know if this is the
17 time to ask it, but I don't want to forget it and it is
18 relative to these seven options.
19 My question is: Why is the eminent domain
20 issue relative to the Keystone area so key to
21 redeveloping the infrastructure in and around it?
22 MR. GLOVER: It is not.
23 MR. CANALES: It seems like there is a dynamic
24 that the more possible eminent domain is to the Keystone
25 area, the more possible upgrading is for the area around
67
1 Main and Carson. The less it is impacting the Keystone
2 area, the less possible the upgrading is to the Main
3 Street and the area around it.
4 It seems like there is a dynamic -- it
5 seems the target is the Keystone area -- sort of area to
6 whether or not an update takes place. In other words,
7 that the more eminent domain is done, the more you have
8 improvements. The less eminent domain is done, the less
9 you have improvements.
10 MR. GLOVER: Not exactly.
11 MR. CANALES: It just seems that way.
12 MR. GLOVER: And it is probably because I am not
13 stating it as clearly as I could be. You can unlimit to
14 a certain degree eminent domain and improvements. There
15 are certain areas where eminent domain might be useful.
16 For Keystone it is my personal opinion that it is not
17 necessary to have eminent domain up there.
18 You can still accomplish the goals that you
19 need accomplish. That is questionable, I am sure, but
20 maybe the best bet is not to worry too much about it.
21 But along Carson Street it is probably absolutely
22 critical that that will be there because that will
23 really contribute a lot to accomplishing the city's
24 goals.
25 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Any other questions
68
1 for the PAC?
2 Mr. Calkins.
3 MR. CALKINS: I was just wondering about building
4 a buffer zone between Main Street and the residential
5 area of Keystone requiring the west side of Shearer
6 Street to build that buffer.
7 Would it be possible to build that buffer
8 zone without the west side of Shearer on the backside of
9 the commercial lots that are already there, that are in
10 the other redevelopment area of 1?
11 MR. GLOVER: Well, going back to my -- ten years
12 ago when I was doing these kinds of reuse plans, and
13 whatnot, the lots along Main and Shearer are maddeningly
14 very small. And it is very difficult to do something
15 other than just a big wall through there. There could
16 be some landscaping put in that might help out.
17 Landscaping does no good for noise.
18 Now, this is just me speaking, but one
19 potential possibility is combining some lots and taking
20 out the industrial and putting in more residential so
21 that the residences on Shearer Street are backing up to
22 residences along Main Street.
23 Actually, that is becoming more and more
24 and more a viable solution, the banks are beginning to
25 loan on things like that.
69
1 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Any other questions?
2 Go ahead, Ms. Thomas.
3 MS. THOMAS: Again, as I was observing the seven
4 options that are there, I would just like to just state
5 this, and you can tell me if I am clear on this.
6 As we look at eminent domain -- because
7 while there are many people here who are residents from
8 the Shearer area, there are also residences along the
9 Carson area as you go 600 feet deep. And I am sure
10 those people who live there are just as concerned about
11 their homes as the people here who live in the Keystone
12 area.
13 So if we, the PAC, were to adopt the option
14 that states that there is no eminent domain in the
15 residential area so that there would be no taking of
16 residential property anywhere, but these areas can still
17 remain a part of the project area, they would still be
18 subject to receiving financial assistance for whatever
19 improvements they would like to see happen there. Is
20 that accurate?
21 MR. GLOVER: That is absolutely correct.
22 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Okay. Do you want to
23 proceed?
24 MR. GLOVER: I am done. One thing I would like
25 to say and then I am done is that we came up with seven
70
1 options. You can mix and match all you want. This is
2 just something that -- a place for you to begin to
3 start. It is sort of the breadth of options that
4 various agencies and cities look at over the course of
5 time for their redevelopment plans.
6 So it is really I think back to you and
7 Margarita and discussion.
8 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Okay. Thank you,
9 Mr. Glover.
10 Mr. Duarte, did you want to speak?.
11 MR. DUARTE: Yes. In this plan for Main Street
12 redevelopment have we seen the plan for the new
13 commercial buildings that are going up because in others
14 that I have seen that they develop, build commercial
15 buildings, shopping centers, you always have to do
16 upgrades to the street, be it center medians -- have we
17 seen the plan yet for what that developer has for Carson
18 Street to improve the traffic flow and the street
19 surface and say a mid island in the middle, another
20 light?
21 Have we seen a plan of that so if we do
22 adopt seven, we do still get an upgrade or
23 rehabilitation of Main Street?
24 MS. CRUZ: I just want to make sure you are
25 referring to the industrial development across the way.
71
1 Okay. Currently, the city put in an application --
2 application to receive funds to do some infrastructure
3 improvements. There will be some street improvements.
4 There won't be as -- create the kind of buffer -- but
5 there are going to be street improvements along Main
6 Street, along Torrance, along Del Amo, and along
7 Figueroa.
8 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: That brings to mind a
9 question. Will it be as beautiful as some like medians
10 or greenery, and stuff, or are we talking bare minimum?
11 MS. CRUZ: Because of the grant we got, it is not
12 bare minimum. It's -- I don't want to -- but it is a
13 little better than what is typically out there. We
14 could still do a little bit more. We are not creating
15 as big a buffer specifically.
16 We are hoping to try to do that -- a buffer
17 between the industrial and residential, but there is
18 some going in.
19 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: There will be some
20 improvement on Main Street and Torrance Boulevard.
21 A VOICE: (Inaudible.)
22 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: And let me just
23 restate. I think the PAC committee -- at least I for
24 one feel strongly that if we could, you know, when they
25 mail the minutes, maybe mail these options to us and
72
1 maybe by the time we come back, we can mix and match and
2 embellish. I have an easier time if I see something in
3 writing before me.
4 So we will get copies and then if the
5 public wants them, maybe we will have them available
6 next meeting.
7 All right. Any other questions for the PAC
8 on the eminent domain alternatives?
9 MR. GLOVER: Not that I am pushing, but if you
10 wish to go ahead, you are perfectly free to go ahead
11 with discussion and recommendations any time you wish.
12 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Does the committee
13 wish to discuss this at this time?
14 I am hearing one saying they would like
15 to -- we have got the first cut of it. And I'm sorry we
16 are so slow, but we want to be sure what we are doing.
17 Mr. Canales.
18 MR. CANALES: I would like to discuss it, but
19 discuss it in a more intelligent way and that is by
20 being able to study what Mr. Glover just presented and
21 be able to think about it a little bit more, maybe talk
22 to some of my neighbors or some of the people in the
23 area and come back maybe more informed.
24 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Mr. Canales is saying
25 that he would like an opportunity to go over this and
73
1 discuss it in the neighborhood and I kind of agree. I
2 need to hear a consensus from the committee. I hear and
3 I appreciate your position.
4 You want us to make a decision, or at least
5 come to a closing or close to a closing, but I don't
6 feel that we are at that sense here. We need a little
7 more time.
8 A VOICE: (Inaudible.)
9 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Is there a consensus?
10 I want to hear from the PAC committee.
11 Ms. Acosta.
12 Okay. She agrees.
13 MR. CANALES: One of the reasons why I think for
14 myself I would like to see first off all the options
15 laid out and think about them with some of my neighbors
16 and then at the same time look at the plan itself. And
17 like Pam had suggested is because we would be better
18 informed to be able to inform the plan as the plan will
19 be to the city council.
20 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: I think we have a
21 consensus on that. And keep in mind PAC members, you
22 don't have to confine yourself to their seven options.
23 You may want to come up with a new one yourself, but we
24 will bring it back at the next meeting. It will be on
25 the agenda for the next meeting and maybe we can come to
74
1 a conclusion then.
2 Okay. That concludes the item.
3 MR. EVERETT: Excuse me.
4 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Yes, Mr. Everett.
5 MR. EVERETT: I know that we have been given a
6 lot of different materials and some of them we haven't
7 really had time to digest and read. And we do need more
8 time.
9 Has everybody read all the stuff that we
10 have gotten?
11 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: I haven't. I will
12 admit to it.
13 There is a time period and I know that the
14 funding cycle and we have the property tax base and so
15 on, but we heard the council say on Tuesday -- you know,
16 I am not sure that this is going to make this year's
17 cut. So we may have more time than we think.
18 Mr. Perrett, did you want to say something?
19 MR. PERRETT: Yeah. If we remove the entire
20 Keystone neighborhood from the project area, why can't
21 we remove other neighborhoods?
22 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Yeah, it is possible.
23 It just limits, as I understand,
24 Mr. Glover, in the amount of money that will come into
25 the project area; is that correct?
75
1 MR. GLOVER: It is not only that it limits the
2 amount of money, if you -- a couple of effects. If you
3 trim down a project area too far, then it becomes
4 economically infeasible. You just don't have that scale
5 that you need in order to generate sufficient revenues
6 to accomplish your goals.
7 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Trimming back in a
8 project area is different from trimming back on eminent
9 domain.
10 MR. GLOVER: Trimming back on eminent domain is a
11 very different thing, yes. But removing neighborhoods
12 entirely from the project area can at some point be
13 counterproductive to the overall goals. So it is
14 something which needs to be taken carefully to
15 consideration.
16 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: So we are talking
17 apples and oranges, eminent domain versus the project
18 area?
19 MR. GLOVER: For the most part, yes.
20 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: All right. If there
21 are no other questions by the committee, I think this is
22 an appropriate time to take about a five- or a
23 ten-minute break before we get into the next item of
24 business.
25 So what do you want? Five minutes? I'm
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1 willing to come back in five. You want ten? Let's try
2 for five. See if we are here.
3 (Brief recess taken.)
4 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: All right. We are on
5 Item number 6, "New Business" discussion, draft
6 redevelopment plan discussion
7 Mr. Glover.
8 MR. GLOVER: I think what I would like to do is
9 take a very few minutes to go through the draft
10 redevelopment plan which is this little blue cover. And
11 by the way, I believe it is also on those CD ROMS with
12 the environmental impact report.
13 So if you want to plug it in, it is there.
14 It should be there, yes. The plan itself, as I keep
15 saying, is not what one normally expects to see by way
16 of a plan. As a matter of fact, it reads like a lot of
17 the legalese and there is a good reason for that. There
18 is a lot of legalese in it.
19 There are certain sections, for instance,
20 that are absolutely required by state law. There is no
21 choice. They must be there and they must be there in a
22 particular language.
23 There are other areas where it is optional
24 whether it be in or not and what the language is, but in
25 those cases we stick pretty close to state law so that
77
1 there is no confusion, or we reduce or minimize the
2 confusion. Other areas are entirely open and free and
3 you can do with what you will and I will tell you which
4 is which.
5 The plan basically contains six chapters.
6 1 is simply basically an introduction is the definition
7 and what the purpose of this plan is and so forth. Then
8 the second is what is called development in the project
9 area.
10 And in a sense this is one of the most
11 important chapters because it contains the project's
12 goals, objectives, and how it should conform with the
13 general plan, the zoning ordinance and all other basic
14 laws and standards, regulations and guidelines of the
15 city.
16 One of the things we try to do here is try
17 to minimize the amount of bureaucracy involved so that
18 there is no redevelopment planning department. All that
19 kind of stuff is delegated to the city so that basically
20 redevelopment remains very small in terms of staffing
21 within the city family.
22 Then there is redevelopment implementation
23 and that is where probably all the big issues are is in
24 that chapter. It is chapter 3. It runs from basic
25 overriding participation rules per owners and tenants,
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1 property acquisition and management. That is where the
2 eminent domain language is.
3 Relocation of persons, families and
4 businesses, overall rules for those. Demolition and
5 clearance, site preparation and public improvements.
6 Those are the projects. Some of them are very
7 generalized and some of the are very specific.
8 Rehabilitation and conservation of
9 structures, that is a section that essentially says the
10 agency can enter into historic preservation agreements.
11 And then, finally, real property
12 disposition -- basically that is if the agency purchases
13 land, it has to sell the land and here are the rules it
14 must follow. Basically it is organized from beginning
15 to end of the process.
16 The next is low and moderate income
17 housing, and it is the basic overriding rules governing
18 how the agency would get involved in low and moderate
19 income housing.
20 Now, you notice it is only one-page long.
21 The reason for that is the state has basically preempted
22 completely the housing department. The agency has very
23 little flexibility. All they can do is say, "We will do
24 more than the state requires."
25 Also, state law is changing very, very
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1 quickly. So what we did is we kept that section down to
2 a series of references to existing state law so that as
3 those change, we don't have to run around amending the
4 plan.
5 Then project financing, that is where there
6 is a basic authority to the agency to collect tax
7 increment. The basic rules for the collection thereof.
8 Also, the maximum amount of the debt that the agency may
9 enter into. It is financed through tax increment. And
10 other kinds of financial limits on the agency such as
11 that. We will get into that in more detail as we move
12 along.
13 Then, finally, administration which is
14 basically what the agency's responsibilities are to
15 other public agencies. What the city's
16 responsibilities -- the city council's responsibilities
17 are.
18 Also the time limits of the plan. How long
19 the plan is effective, which is 30 years. And also the
20 severability which is basically if the plan is
21 challenged in courts and if part of it is thrown out, it
22 allows the remainder of the plan to survive and
23 function.
24 A couple of things, by the way, on the time
25 limits. The plan's language right now sets into their
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1 maximum. They can be less, but never more. So don't go
2 thinking 50 years because you can't do it. Thirty years
3 and then the agency must be out of business. It has to
4 go out of business after 30 years.
5 So unless there are any questions, do you
6 want me just to start with chapter 1 and essentially
7 walk through that very quickly?
8 MR. PERRETT: (Inaudible.)
9 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Could you please use
10 the microphone, Mr. Perrett.
11 MR. PERRETT: I never heard of this one before,
12 but it says in here, "The agency is also authorized to
13 acquire any other interests in real property less than
14 fee."
15 MR. GLOVER: Acquiring an interest in real
16 property less than a fee, the agency would be authorized
17 to do that. The agency can buy an easement. That is
18 buying property less than a fee in less than fee simple.
19 When you own your land, when you buy a house and you own
20 the land underneath the house, you bought that land in
21 fee simple, but you can divide up the rights of that
22 land and sell them off individually. Those are
23 basically called easements. And so buying something in
24 less than fee means you are buying basically an easement
25 or some right.
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1 Quite often redevelopment agencies -- well,
2 for instance, how many of you have ever been in Eureka
3 with all those wonderful old Victorian facades?
4 Actually, the city owns a maintenance easement over
5 those. So the city maintains them and that would be
6 buying less than fee.
7 Have I got it right? So that can be a
8 pretty handy tool.
9 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: So is it your intent
10 to go back to --
11 MR. GLOVER: 1? Yeah, why don't I go to the
12 first step.
13 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Okay. I don't know
14 how many project members have read this. I have. As we
15 go through each chapter, maybe we can stop and ask
16 questions.
17 MR. GLOVER: Stop and ask questions and we don't
18 honestly need to get all the way through it tonight. I
19 think it would be miraculous if we did.
20 Basically chapter 1, the introduction
21 starts out as just citing the authority. Under what --
22 "Why can we do this? What gives us the power to do it."
23 It is the California Community Redevelopment Law, or
24 commonly known as the C.R.L. and that is part of the
25 Health and Safety Code, City Health and Safety Code, and
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1 it sets the overall parameters and it is not that thick.
2 Well, actually, about that thick. It is just normal
3 type.
4 It is a pretty big piece of legislation
5 that regulates it, but it does provide a lot of
6 flexibility to localities or to cities. What is the
7 purpose of the plan?
8 Well, the purpose of the plan is simply to
9 establish protect area number 4. And we also have to
10 tell them what the basis of the plan is. The basis of
11 the plan was a preliminary plan that was adopted by the
12 planning commission back in October, 2001, and that
13 essentially was the first document, the initiating
14 document.
15 Then we get into definitions. And one of
16 the reasons that we have so darn many definitions, 13 of
17 them, is that, first of all, we don't want to be
18 constantly repeating ourselves.
19 And, secondly, there are certain terms that
20 we want to make sure everybody understands what they
21 are. For instance, what is real property. Well, we
22 define real property. So then we don't have confusion.
23 We are trying to avoid as much confusion as possible for
24 farther down the line.
25 So all that is in there for the reading.
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1 Mostly it is just when we refer to plan, redevelopment
2 plan, for instance, what do we mean? Well, we mean this
3 document, but at least people when they read the
4 definitions will know that we mean this document.
5 Lawyers love it and so do I because it avoids a lot of
6 confusion.
7 Frankly, every time we are called in to try
8 to resolve some kind of an issue with a plan, the
9 development says one thing, the city says another thing,
10 it is because of inadequate definitions and the lack of
11 clarity.
12 And, in other words, it is anybody's guess
13 what they meant 20 years ago. So, anyhow, the project
14 area boundaries also must be referenced and in the very
15 back of the report in Appendix B is a legal description
16 of the boundaries that were adopted by the planning
17 commission.
18 These aren't the final boundaries. We
19 don't know what they are going to be. And we are going
20 to have to have them redescribed. So an engineer
21 essentially does a legal description of the boundaries
22 of the project.
23 This is very interesting because the state
24 takes these and they put them on the statewide maps so
25 that everybody knows what the boundaries of the project
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1 are. They know then how to divide up the tax increment
2 revenues because of that.
3 So it is a very important document, though
4 nobody ever reads it except the state guy. Then he
5 always calls up and says, "You are wrong. There is a
6 mistake."
7 Let's get into project objectives. That is
8 the beginning of chapter 2.
9 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Let me just make a
10 quick announcement for those who are still with us in
11 the audience.
12 This booklet that we are going through
13 chapter by chapter is on the back table with staff.
14 They have a copy. So if you want to take one and go
15 along with us or take it home or you can get it on a CD.
16 If you want a copy, why don't you raise your hand and
17 maybe the staff can bring one to you.
18 MR. GLOVER: In the interim, are there any
19 questions of me on chapter 1?
20 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Committee members?
21 Okay. Go ahead.
22 MR. GLOVER: The project objectives lay out
23 generally what it is that the agency wants to
24 accomplish. And this is one of the areas of the plan
25 that you can do with what you will. That we put down a
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1 bunch of standard objectives.
2 Staff contributed a bunch of objectives,
3 but you are certainly free and encouraged to, as a
4 group, recommend your own objectives. I think that
5 would be really important to do, and it would clarify, I
6 think, a lot of the issues that the people here tonight
7 have had regarding what is it you want to do in my
8 neighborhood.
9 What are the important things about the
10 objectives in the plan and is it in the future when the
11 agency or the city council has to make a decision about
12 what action to take and it has to essentially make
13 findings that is consistent with the plan, it is to the
14 objectives that they should be returned for their
15 guidance. It is almost like coming back with a bible
16 for your guidance.
17 So the objectives become really, really
18 important. And sometimes it is easy just to skim over
19 them, but they can become very important down the road.
20 And they are very good for just explaining why it is we
21 are doing what we are doing and what it is we want to
22 accomplish.
23 There is a whole smear of them with -- just
24 to get more and more detailed, although none of them are
25 really tremendously detailed at this point, but this is
86
1 something that I think it would behave us all to take a
2 close look at and maybe add material to it.
3 Then we get into an item that has been a
4 matter of discussion in section 220, page 7. It has
5 been a matter of a lot of discussion which is basically
6 less the relationship between the redevelopment plan and
7 the general plan. And this is where it says, "What is
8 the relationship?"
9 MR. CALKINS: Can you explain the second
10 sentence?
11 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Use your microphone,
12 Mr. Calkins.
13 MR. CALKINS: Can you explain the second sentence
14 of this about the plan being inconsistent when the first
15 sentence says this plan is consistent.
16 MR. GLOVER: Right. There can be cases where the
17 plan, for instance -- let me see. I am trying to think
18 of a good concrete example. And to a certain degree
19 this is sort of artifact language which has been left
20 over from years past.
21 If something that the city is doing is
22 clearly inconsistent, say, with the goals and objectives
23 of the plan and it is in the project area, then it would
24 be inconsistent with that plan. And in which case this
25 plan could override it in those particular cases. Other
87
1 than that, it is all the city's development code shall
2 apply.
3 Technically, actually, some of the larger
4 development agencies in the state do actually adopt some
5 of their own codes. They are not the same kind of law,
6 but they do have their own standards and regulations for
7 people who are using their assistance.
8 Carson is just not big enough to do that,
9 and it usually is a nightmare to try to have two sets of
10 standards or codes, but you are, as an agency, able to
11 adopt your own codes -- not "codes." I am trying to say
12 guidelines and standards that go above and beyond the
13 minimums that are set by the city's standard. You can't
14 violate them. You can't make things easier or less.
15 Anyhow, what this basically says is that
16 the agency can adopt -- that this plan shall be in
17 conformance with a general plan and that the agency may
18 adopt also specific plans or detailed plans of
19 development, but it has to do it in consultation with
20 the planning commission and those things have to be
21 approved by the city council sitting as the
22 redevelopment agency.
23 So it is going through basically the same
24 process, but what this allows -- one of the things that
25 this allows the agency to do is pay for specific plans
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1 and detailed design plans.
2 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: I have a question by
3 Ms. Thomas.
4 MS. THOMAS: Thank you. I have had an
5 opportunity to read this document. And as we have gone
6 through and have made highlights and notes on the
7 objectives. And I heard the people talk tonight and ask
8 very specifically what is the plan.
9 If you read this document, it does not tell
10 you. I think what they were asking, "What is actually
11 going to go in our neighborhood?" And when you read
12 this document, even though it is entitled "Redevelopment
13 plan for project area," it does not tell you that.
14 Instead it refers back to the general plan which is yet
15 another document.
16 And I think, if I am not mistaken, because
17 that is certainly my curiosity, and I haven't had a
18 chance to read the general plan. I was given that
19 information yesterday. So I will be reading that and I
20 will be ready when we come back.
21 However, the people have asked specifically
22 what is that plan, and this document does not give you
23 that. So are we at some point actually going to be able
24 to let the people know what that general plan is to
25 specifically tell them what is going to -- what is
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1 proposed to go into this project area?
2 MR. GLOVER: Yes, it is. And if you look in
3 appendix A of the redevelopment plan, all the land uses
4 are in there and the maps. Also, there is a section
5 354, I believe, that lists in detail particular programs
6 and projects that would be undertaken over the short
7 term.
8 As we go along, every five years a
9 brand-new implementation plan is adopted to detail
10 particular projects in the area.
11 MS. THOMAS: Let me make sure I am clear because
12 I did review appendix A and on the maps it does indicate
13 things such as what is low density residential, medium
14 density, high. Is that what you are referring to?
15 MR. GLOVER: Yes.
16 MS. THOMAS: I don't think that that was the
17 question the people were asking. I understand what you
18 are saying. What that to me is doing is kind of, for
19 lack of a better word, zoning out what areas are going
20 to be residential versus commercial versus light or
21 heavy industrial.
22 I think what they were asking is more
23 specific than that. If you are going to have a
24 commercial area, what is going to go in that commercial
25 area specifically. And I see heads going up and down.
90
1 So that tells me that that is what they want to know.
2 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: I am going to ask the
3 city attorney to respond to your question.
4 MS. HARRIS: One thing that Mr. Glover just
5 mentioned is an implementation plan which is not part of
6 a redevelopment plan. It will be part of a separate
7 document. And that will be a plan that -- in
8 recognition that redevelopment plans are for a 30-year
9 period and that they are very general.
10 The law was changed fairly recently to say
11 that agencies must adopt plans that cover a five-year
12 period. So it would be for a much shorter time and that
13 plan will address what the agency plans to do with the
14 money for affordable housing as well as other general
15 public improvements and it will look at a five-year
16 snapshot, so to speak.
17 The first implementation plan will be part
18 of the documentation that is presented to the council
19 and to the agency for the joint public hearing. And
20 that will be updated every five years and that will give
21 more of a concrete proposal of what the agency proposes
22 to do with the amount of money it expects to have during
23 the first five years and then every five years
24 thereafter.
25 MS. THOMAS: And I do apologize. I haven't had a
91
1 chance to read the general plan, but assuming that you
2 have read the general plan, there has to be a vision of
3 some sort. Is that in the general plan that gets into
4 the specifics?
5 MR. GLOVER: It is in -- yes, it is in the
6 general plan and the general plan also contains a lot of
7 details about what is permitted in each area and what
8 kind of development is foreseen.
9 One of the reasons that it is not always
10 the best idea to put that into the redevelopment plan is
11 what happens when the general plan changes. Then you
12 have an inconsistency between the two and you are going
13 to have to bring the redevelopment plan up to par with
14 the general plan at great expense.
15 MS. THOMAS: Right. I do understand that and
16 that is why the general plan is referenced so much here.
17 MR. GLOVER: Yes.
18 MS. THOMAS: So I understand that. I was just
19 trying get to where do we go to get specifics because I
20 know they have to be somewhere.
21 MR. GLOVER: That would probably be the best
22 place to go.
23 MS. THOMAS: Okay. Thank you.
24 MR. GLOVER: The other thing, though, is
25 subsequent to finishing the deliberations on the
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1 redevelopment plan, as I understand it, the agency will
2 be bringing to you more detailed design plans to be
3 looking at for Carson Court. So get this into play and
4 then begin to work on the details.
5 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: I have now heard four
6 different terminologies. This is the draft
7 redevelopment plan. The reference is the general plan.
8 There is supposedly an implementation that is not done
9 yet. At some point we will be seeing it and sending it
10 on to counsel, and now you said a fourth plan.
11 MR. GLOVER: Right. Remember, when we -- we have
12 a question over here.
13 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Let me have an answer
14 to question and then --
15 MR. CANALES: You go right ahead.
16 MR. GLOVER: Remember back when -- I think it was
17 a couple of weeks ago we had the presentation from the
18 architects?
19 We were essentially -- that was -- you
20 would be working with that kind of design issue probably
21 after this plan is adopted and getting into those kinds
22 of things, for lack of a better term, called a design
23 plan. Maybe it should be called "a specific plan."
24 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Mr. Canales.
25 MR. CANALES: Exactly. In my reading of this
93
1 particular document, page 8, it talks about specific
2 development objectives.
3 MR. GLOVER: Right.
4 MR. CANALES: And that is exactly what Mr. Glover
5 is referring to. And that can't happen unless the
6 agency, after consulting with the planning commission,
7 by resolution adopts a specific plan. And that is the
8 specific plan that Ms. Thomas is directing her focus on.
9 We can't have that, in my estimate, unless
10 that happens first and that can't happen unless we make
11 up our mind on what we think we are going to do in
12 choosing and mixing options. So once that happens and
13 we follow that process, then we can begin to talk
14 about --
15 MS. THOMAS: If I may.
16 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Ms. Thomas.
17 MS. THOMAS: Mr. Canales, I like your thought.
18 However, there is a plan that is already -- there is a
19 vision and we have got an idea of that vision when the
20 architects were here several meetings ago. That is what
21 I was referring to.
22 I understand the process that everything
23 has to go through, but we are going through a process
24 now on something that has already been established.
25 Now, we have the ability to have some input in this
94
1 project area, but as this book refers to the general
2 plan, that is the one that specifically states -- and I
3 am sure when we all have an opportunity to read it --
4 that specifically states what the vision is, what will
5 go where.
6 This was drafted as a result of that
7 general plan because if there wasn't a general plan,
8 they would not have been able to map out what is going
9 to be high density, low density, residential,
10 commercial, et cetera, et cetera.
11 So the only reason I brought up the
12 question and wanted clarity is because, as these people
13 come to every meeting, and they have been faithful to
14 the meetings, and I don't want them to grow tired
15 because we continue to go through things that don't get
16 to the heart of what they are asking. And so we need to
17 be cognizant of the fact that there is a question that
18 they have about the specific plan that has yet to be
19 answered.
20 MR. CANALES: I understand you.
21 May I comment on that?
22 My understanding -- I was a part of the
23 GPAC commission. My understanding is part of the
24 general plan that the city adopted is that this is --
25 the general plan itself is a great vision for Carson,
95
1 but it includes much more than the project area and it
2 is a comprehensive plan.
3 It is a book probably about as fat as this
4 one right here. And I am not sure how much specificity
5 we are going to get out of that for what we are talking
6 about now. That is what I am talking about.
7 MS. CRUZ: When he refers to the GPAC, he is
8 referring to the general plan advisory commission. And
9 what is happening is some confusion, and I guess -- the
10 planning commission, the planning department, the city
11 council, they basically will approve specific plans.
12 We did bring in an architect to talk a
13 little bit about putting together seven properties to
14 create some kind of vision. The vision specifically has
15 not yet been created.
16 The general plan advisory committee has met
17 and came up with a lot of things that they would like to
18 see and a lot of goals and objectives, but there is
19 still a lot of work to be done. We can only conform to
20 what is created there.
21 Part of what was asked that came out with
22 the city council was to try to put together a project
23 area to create the financing. So at the same time as we
24 are trying to create some kind of specific plan, we are
25 going to bring forward those architects back to look
96
1 along Carson Street.
2 The vision has not yet been created. It is
3 the same process. We intend to use this body here to
4 help us to create this vision. And to the extent that
5 we have a community here coming in -- there hasn't been
6 something specific.
7 The area for Main -- I forget the number,
8 but I think it has been divided to over 20 -- I forgot
9 the exact number, but different subareas. It is over 30
10 subareas and they are already on 11 in terms of
11 specificity of types of land uses, et cetera.
12 The redevelopment plan typically don't get
13 into the specificity or specifics of land uses as much
14 as -- the planning commission, that is their role. That
15 is the role of the city council, but we have an
16 opportunity to help influence that by submitting
17 recommendations to them through this body.
18 MR. DUARTE: So back to Mrs. Thomas's question.
19 Will we get a design before we make a
20 decision on these seven options?
21 No? So we are basically building the tire
22 before we even get the motor.
23 MR. GLOVER: Well, I used the example the other
24 day, first of all, you have it. It is the general plan.
25 That is all there is. We can't give you more, period.
97
1 I know it's -- I think a lot of people are expecting to
2 see models and all these kinds of things, but these
3 don't come along for a while yet until an awful lot of
4 the footwork has been done.
5 In a sense you might look at this as taking
6 the first steps in the process of getting these plans in
7 place by creating the authority to do them. Otherwise,
8 you have a terrible chicken and egg problem or it's --
9 and I have often said, "Look. Think about your
10 retirement."
11 You save for retirement without knowing
12 what you are going to do in retirement necessarily. You
13 just know that you have got to start somewhere and this
14 is the place you start.
15 MR. DUARTE: We also had that discussion
16 yesterday if you remember.
17 MR. GLOVER: Yeah.
18 MR. DUARTE: And I told you I have the same
19 philosophy as most of these people out here do. We need
20 to look at what we are going to get today versus what we
21 are going to get 30 years from now.
22 MR. GLOVER: I don't know, Sal, exactly what you
23 are referring to with "what we get today." In terms of
24 money?
25 MR. DUARTE: No. Development.
98
1 MR. GLOVER: In terms of development? Nothing
2 because nothing will happen immediately. It takes years
3 for these things to begin to evolve. That is what you
4 will get. You will get what is in the general plan and
5 what is in the zoning ordinance.
6 There will be no changes in that regard. I
7 can't stress that enough. There will be no changes.
8 What is on paper, what is on maps, what is in the
9 general plan now is what will remain in effect. And,
10 believe me, you look at some of these redevelopment
11 project areas that are very successful. Wow, and all
12 this kind of stuff, or like neighborhoods where I live,
13 where I had property, I don't live there anymore, which
14 are nice.
15 They have come along in the redevelopment
16 project areas. There has been a lot of investment, but
17 these are project areas that are 15, 20 years old. When
18 the project area started, they were in pretty bad shape
19 and they just grow.
20 They have to grow. They start out very,
21 very small and there is very little they can do. And
22 there is very little change initially, but the change
23 begins to build up and usually the change is to preserve
24 and that is when the plans are formulated. That is when
25 you folks as a PAC begin to work on the plans is at that
99
1 time.
2 Then the details and the specifics begin to
3 emerge. So it is patience. It is a very patient,
4 long-term kind of effort.
5 In terms of money it starts out very, very,
6 very small and then it grows. It is like in a savings
7 account or in an annuity. It starts out very small and
8 then it begins to accumulate. So you have to be
9 patient.
10 There is nobody out there with any grand
11 scheme or plan because even if they had it, they
12 couldn't afford to do it because there is no revenue to
13 do it with.
14 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: The financial tool.
15 That is where we are getting back to the whole thing,
16 the financial tool.
17 MR. GLOVER: Right.
18 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Okay. Mr. Calkins.
19 MR. CALKINS: Ernie mentioned that there would be
20 no change in the general plan related to the
21 redevelopment. However, the 600 feet eminent domain
22 east and west of Carson -- north and south of Carson
23 Street, the reason they want eminent domain is to be
24 able to put commercial there, but they are taking
25 residential.
100
1 So obviously the general plan is going to
2 have to change or the zoning is going to have to change
3 for those residentials to become commercial properties.
4 Correct, or not?
5 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Well, as we learn
6 from Emory Gallant last week was the general plan is not
7 complete. In fact, the majority of the document is not
8 complete, but your question is that the Carson corridor,
9 the 600 feet, there is residential behind those
10 commercials.
11 So something has to change. So we are
12 talking -- somebody has a vision, an idea of what they
13 want and we don't.
14 MR. GLOVER: No. You --
15 MS. CRUZ: That is true except that it is not
16 this body that turns around and enacts the change. It
17 has got to go through the planning commission and the
18 city council. We are creating a project area to try to
19 establish resources to implement the visions that can be
20 created.
21 There is -- people mentioned about what
22 they would sort of like to see, et cetera, but we don't
23 currently have some of the resources. The general
24 planning commission will go through a process to -- if
25 there needs to be -- change, they will go through that
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1 process and make those changes. We don't do that.
2 MR. GLOVER: But I would add on there, if I am
3 not incorrect, that you are working as a group with this
4 design plan, if that is the term we are using, in the
5 future, like --
6 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: But --
7 MR. GLOVER: You have some implications in that
8 regard.
9 MS. CRUZ: That is true. We do have the
10 architects coming in, but the architects still, anything
11 that they come up with has to go -- we will turn around
12 and give that to the planning department. They will
13 then turn around and go over and talk to the planning
14 commission and add to it and create the specific plan.
15 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Let me just -- and
16 I'm sorry. I have got to bring it back to some very
17 basic stuff. If we don't approve or recommend a project
18 area which is the financing tool to do all these things
19 because we don't know what all these things are, then it
20 doesn't happen; right?
21 We don't have any place in the scenario to
22 say that we want to see what the vision is before we
23 say, "Yes, you can use this as a financing tool." Am I
24 saying that right?
25 MR. GLOVER: Yeah. And we could sit here and
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1 paint you pretty picture all day long, but you know what
2 those would be: Fibs.
3 What we are trying to do is give you the
4 straightest, most honest truth we possibly can. And
5 part of that is, is that there is a general plan that is
6 out there. That change is likely to occur. That you
7 will be involved in the change, but right now there are
8 no specific changes anticipated. And nobody has any
9 grand schemes or plans. And I can't tell you about what
10 is not there.
11 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Let's have one more
12 question and then we are going to come to a conclusion.
13 MR. DUARTE: The only reason I ask is one
14 person's vision is another person's vision. And I have
15 lived pretty much in that -- you know, everybody refers
16 to Keystone.
17 And the only thing I envision by looking at
18 this without seeing an architect's drawings, or
19 something, what I envision is another jackrabbit field
20 along Main Street because if we give you the power to do
21 eminent domain along Shearer Street, now we are going to
22 have vacant lots along all of Main Street until a
23 developer decides to develop.
24 That's why -- what I am trying to say is if
25 you give us an idea of, okay, we are going to redevelop
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1 Main Street and we are going to do it for commercial
2 shops, not commercial investment. Then we can envision
3 mini malls, you know, things that we can use within the
4 community.
5 We've got a Blockbuster Video. We've got
6 other things that we can use along there, but without
7 seeing a vision, most of us that live in that area, all
8 we can envision is another field along Main Street.
9 MR. GLOVER: Correct. Well, right now the vision
10 for that is industrial. It is in the plan. It is in
11 the general plan.
12 MR. DUARTE: So there is a plan for it?
13 MR. GLOVER: Yes.
14 MR. DUARTE: Okay.
15 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: There is an existing
16 general plan?
17 MR. GLOVER: Right.
18 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Mr. Glover, it is
19 getting late. The hour is getting late and we are only
20 in chapter 3; right?
21 MR. GLOVER: Well, that's in chapter 2. Well, I
22 think we kind of got bogged down there, but we got a lot
23 of, I think, misconcepts --
24 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: In the interest of
25 time, does any PAC member have any question regarding
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1 chapter 2?
2 Mr. Calkins.
3 MR. CALKINS: When I got on the PAC, one of the
4 reasons that I got on the PAC was because of what the
5 environmental -- the preliminary environmental impact
6 said about -- the basis. Now, on page 11 and 76, it
7 basically says an estimated 300 acres will be devoted to
8 open spaces, parks, trails, landscaping, buildings and
9 backyards, right-of-ways and -- basically there are 200
10 acres of streets in the project area.
11 That means there is only going to be 100
12 acres worth of open spaces -- now, you are including in
13 that everybody's backyard. You are including in that
14 everybody's driveways. You are including in that -- so,
15 you know, where are parks coming, and that kind of
16 thing?
17 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Well, I don't think
18 there is anymore parks planned in the general plan,
19 anyway, but your question is -- pointing it out?
20 MR. CALKINS: Just pointing it out that that 300
21 acres seems like, you know, very limited.
22 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Right. Okay. Any
23 other questions from the PAC?
24 MS. THOMAS: My question was: Was the 300
25 acres -- is that cumulative, or any vacant space that
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1 might be in that area? Is that what that is?
2 MR. GLOVER: Let me explain where that 300 acres
3 comes from since I am the one that came up with the
4 number. What it is is it's a guesstimate. If you read
5 that paragraph very closely, open space is the primary
6 broadleaf to include streets, alleys, front yard
7 setbacks, rear yard setbacks, not just parks. And
8 basically that is an artifact of a really ancient
9 redevelopment law that you are supposed to put in how
10 many acres of this kind of open space will it be. I
11 guess about 300 acres total. I could be wrong, or
12 anything else.
13 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: It's a guess.
14 MR. GLOVER: It's a guess.
15 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Okay. Are there any
16 other questions?
17 All right. I think we need to continue to
18 go over that, but you didn't have any expectation as to
19 tonight, did you?
20 MR. GLOVER: Not in the --
21 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: How does the PAC
22 committee feel? Shall we conclude this for tonight and
23 resume -- oh, wait. We have an agenda we have to
24 follow. So we will continue on with it next week.
25 MR. GLOVER: I think we stopped about 220.
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1 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Okay. Let's move on
2 to item number 7 which is the PAC member comments. Are
3 there any members from the PAC?
4 We probably have been commenting all along.
5 So unless anybody has a burning desire to speak, we will
6 go on to staff comments and the schedule of the upcoming
7 meetings.
8 Let me note that the May 30 and the June 13
9 date are different than what we had in an earlier
10 schedule that we -- so those are the only differences.
11 May 16 is our next meeting, May 30 the town hall
12 meeting, and June 13 may or may not be a meeting.
13 Any other comments from staff?
14 MR. PERFITT: I just want to point out some of
15 the things that are in the packet that were requested by
16 PAC members.
17 The portfolio of current projects for --
18 the urban design folks that we had is included. That
19 sort of augments the -- adds to the walking tour that we
20 provided last week. And then following that are the
21 minutes.
22 One other thing that came up in the
23 questions from the public regarding an attorney. It
24 just comes to mind that there are a lot of nonprofit
25 organizations for folks that cannot afford legal aid who
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1 I have worked with in the past. A woman asked a
2 question about residents being able to have an attorney.
3 That is all I have.
4 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Motion to adjourn is
5 in order.
6 MR. CALKINS: I second it.
7 CHAIRPERSON ROBLES DeWITT: Moved and seconded.
8 This meeting is adjourned.
9 * * * * *
10 (At 9:52 P.M., meeting was adjourned.)
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1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
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4 I, Linda Barbosa, Certified Shorthand Reporter,
5 CSR License No. 2344, certify:
6 That I took in shorthand the proceedings in this
7 matter, and the foregoing transcript is a true and
8 correct transcription of my shorthand notes
9 I further certify that I have no interest in the
10 outcome of the action.
11 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have subscribed my name
12 this _____ day of May, 2002.
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15 LINDA BARBOSA
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTER
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